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samokybacon

Cal/Mag deficiency? Glookies in veg

61 posts in this topic

Hi all, hoping for a little diagnosis help.

 

Changed the res 5 days ago and since the ladies are not looking happy.  :wallbash:

 

Before the RES change the EC was the same at 0.7 (0.6 of that bloom A&B Mix with 0.1 made up of Mag extra AN additive = total 0.7) and things were going swimmingly with great colour and great vigor in growth,, they looked banging! 

 

5 Days later not so much! Much lighter in general colour and rusting on some leafs, one lady has been hit harder than the other three but she is most defo a different pheno as she has looked different from the get go. 

 

A little info....

 

1.2x1.2m tent

400w MH

10ltr pots with clay pebbles,, drip system hybrib with some roots in the res allready. 

Air out through carbon filer and in through RVK'S

Temps are 20/21 off and between 25 & 28 degres on.

Lights 20 on & 4 off

Humidity 65%

Water recirculated with Res pump and also pumped to chiller unit and kept at 20-21 Degres 

Water is RO with EC @ 0.7 using Advanced Neuts hydro Sensi Grow

 

Today I have added a little (15ml to aprox 35ltr full res) Advanced neuts MAG extra as ive read on here that Glookies are Cal/Mag hungry and it seams to marry up with how they are looking,, well that and abit of a nitrogen deficiency too caused maybe by the lack of Cal???

 

Any help or advice on whether im on the right track would be most appreciated! :smokin:

 

@stu914 Any thoughts pal,, i know you've been on the AN neuts for ever! Ever had any Cal/Mag issues?? or might it be something else? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by samokybacon
update

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looks like mine when i'm under feeding, you say lighter in colour so that would be my best guess

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1 minute ago, ratdog said:

looks like mine when i'm under feeding, you say lighter in colour so that would be my best guess

 

They do look a little hungry but EC has been stable, before and after the RES change.

 

Ive always gone with if the EC drops they it aint strong enuf and if the EC rises your feeding too much!?!

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1 minute ago, samokybacon said:

 

They do look a little hungry but EC has been stable, before and after the RES change.

 

Ive always gone with if the EC drops they it aint strong enuf and if the EC rises your feeding too much!?!

 

 

i'm a compost guy myself mate, i just get that same thing if i neglect to feed/up feed at the right time. i also find as plants get bigger they require more feed, something i didn't really notice in the past.

 

hope someone can shed more light on it mate

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I ask this a lot, do you know the ratio of calcium : magnesium in your tap water? ( hard or soft is irrelevant you need to know ppm) 

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How often do the drippers run? This last week has been pretty cold, could it have got lower than that? They look cold/overwatered from here.

Pretty sure the sensi ph perfect stuff has calcium and magnesium nitrate in it already, as well as other buffers, and AN say specifically not to use other products with it as they can mess with the chelation agents. Not sure how true that is but if the PH was pretty stable with just a&b and RO, it suggests there wass adequate buffer. You changed 2 variables at the same time so to simplify I'd remove the calmag and see how they fare.. Despite the fact that RO usually requires extra buffer/calmag, I think ph perfect might be an exception.

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35 minutes ago, samokybacon said:

Today I have added a little (15ml to aprox 35ltr

 

Hi bud, they do look hungry with a little heat stress on the leaves. What ratio feed to water did you mix at last res change?

If it was a weak solution the plants have probably used up whatever elements that are now showing deficiencies on the leaves.

I've never used RO water with sensi nutes and this could also be contributing to the problem.

Try changing the res and increasing the nute strength up to 4ml per ltr, see what it reads on your meter and how the plants react in the next couple of days.

I assume you have a good root structure as well?

 

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47 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

I ask this a lot, do you know the ratio of calcium : magnesium in your tap water? ( hard or soft is irrelevant you need to know ppm) 

Hi mate, im useing RO so no background PPm.

Edited by samokybacon

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34 minutes ago, uBercaMeL said:

How often do the drippers run? This last week has been pretty cold, could it have got lower than that? They look cold/overwatered from here.

Pretty sure the sensi ph perfect stuff has calcium and magnesium nitrate in it already, as well as other buffers, and AN say specifically not to use other products with it as they can mess with the chelation agents. Not sure how true that is but if the PH was pretty stable with just a&b and RO, it suggests there wass adequate buffer. You changed 2 variables at the same time so to simplify I'd remove the calmag and see how they fare.. Despite the fact that RO usually requires extra buffer/calmag, I think ph perfect might be an exception.

 

Hi mate, the water temp is stable between 20 -21, its always on the rise and cooled by my helia chiller.

 

They were haveng 5 15min feeds a day,, ive lowerd that to 4. Tho as mentioned roots are allready in the res.

 

I'm useing an AN product Sensi Cal Mag as an additive to my standard Sensi Bloom so there shouldnt be any issues there.

 

Dont measure PH, not required with Sensi PH perfect.

 

I did change up from a 250w MH to a 400w MH,, so yes two variables changed...

 

Only one variable tho when it comes to the water solution, that was the res change,, the solution pre and fresh was made to the same EC 0.7.  I have to admit i was abit lazy and it had been three weeks since i did a full fresh res.

That said things were stable and everything looked great,, so i assumed no need to be concerned. 

Edited by samokybacon

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27 minutes ago, stu914 said:

 

Hi bud, they do look hungry with a little heat stress on the leaves. What ratio feed to water did you mix at last res change?

If it was a weak solution the plants have probably used up whatever elements that are now showing deficiencies on the leaves.

I've never used RO water with sensi nutes and this could also be contributing to the problem.

Try changing the res and increasing the nute strength up to 4ml per ltr, see what it reads on your meter and how the plants react in the next couple of days.

I assume you have a good root structure as well?

 

Hi mate,, the heat stress if from upping the 250MH to the 400MH and not raising the parabolic enuf,, my bad.

 

Roots are ok (nice and white) just starting to mass in the RES,, will conduct further checks tho tomoz/ 

 

Water was fresh RO as recommended by Advanced Neuts for the PH perfect range.

 

EC has been stable at 0.7 (dont measure by ml per ltr only by ec) so did'nt think they needed any more as i normally wait for it to drop,, and its only been 5 days with a full fresh RES of 35ltrs aprox.

To be fair i'm probs only using just over 1ml of A and 1ml of B per litre to acheive 0.6 EC and then added about aprox 1ml of Cal/Mag per ltr to bump the total upto 0.7 EC. 

 

Will do a fresh RES tomoz with just A&B at 0.8 and see how things go... 

 

 

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Oh I thought you said you switched from bloom to grow & calmag.. 3 variables then.. Should be OK with that 'calmag' as it contains the same chelates..

Pretty sure the AN PH perfect just uses EDDHA and DPTA instead of EDTA and adds some aminos for wider range uptake. It will still have a 'sweet spot', so if the ph is way out uptake will be reduced, doesn't matter what the spiel says.. 'Calmag' will probably raise ph, I'm guessing significantly with RO.

e2a - According to this AN article about RO everything above 10ppm is 'bad water' (complete nonsense), which suggests to me their nutes are designed for RO water and their calmag is therefor quite unlikely to be necessary.. This also follows the idea that AN's nutrient lines came from reverse engineering GH's offerings, which were apparently designed for 0ppm water..

Edited by uBercaMeL
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9 minutes ago, uBercaMeL said:

Oh I thought you said you switched from bloom to grow & calmag.. 3 variables then.. Should be OK with that 'calmag' as it contains the same chelates..

Pretty sure the AN PH perfect just uses EDDHA and DPTA instead of EDTA and adds some aminos for wider range uptake. It will still have a 'sweet spot', so if the ph is way out uptake will be reduced, doesn't matter what the spiel says.. 'Calmag' will probably raise ph, I'm guessing significantly with RO.

 

Just vegging with Sensi grow A&B + Sensi Cal/mag @ 0.7 for the last weeks prior to res change.


Only one variable,, the res change. Well ok 2,, with the 400w bulb change which did initially effect air/leaf temps. 

 

Have used RO from the same water source for previous grows and had no issues with PH. 

 

Gunna do a fresh res at 0.8 tomoz with just A&B. :yep:

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Ah you said '0.6 of that bloom A&B Mix' in the first post so I figured you'd started them on bloom because you'd run out of grow or something.

 

I Just read a thread where the chap said he emailed AN and they said to not use any calmag with the PH perfect and RO, so you should be good to go :yep:

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52 minutes ago, samokybacon said:

Sensi Cal/mag

 

This is probably the culprit, I've never supplemented AN nutes with anything, except Buddhas Tree PK in flower, for nearly 10 years with no issues.

Increasing light also means feed levels need to increase accordingly, I would feed as per the instructions on the bottle, this should be 4ml per ltr at this stage of growth...

...then take a reading and see what the ec is...

 

46 minutes ago, uBercaMeL said:

he emailed AN and they said to not use any calmag with the PH perfect and RO

 

I've also had this advice...:yep:

 

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4ml per liter and it's £25 a liter? Holy! :woot:

 

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