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Jimmeh

Planning kit purchases for environment control

44 posts in this topic

Swiftair do a single fan speed controller with thermostat for under 20quid on the auction site

 

@Jimboo @Jack?

 

I've had one running over a year now no probs.  Dunno about hum coz in my house you can't hear yourself think most of the time anyways so it's a non issue for me.

 

For cheap n cheerful you can't go wrong though.

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4 minutes ago, Dodgee said:

Swiftair do a single fan speed controller with thermostat for under 20quid on the auction site

 

@Jimboo @Jack?

 

I've had one running over a year now no probs.  Dunno about hum coz in my house you can't hear yourself think most of the time anyways so it's a non issue for me.

 

For cheap n cheerful you can't go wrong though.

@Dodgee   hi mate can you get that to run without the Thermostat working?  ..I suppose I could turn that up so the thermostat never comes into play  . I want to slow a fan when it becomes too cold mate

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Just now, Jimboo said:

@Dodgee   hi mate can you get that to run without the Thermostat working?  ..I suppose I could turn that up so the thermostat never comes into play  . I want to slow a fan when it becomes too cold mate

Yes mate just dial the temp knob up to maximum and it becomes a standard controller. 

 

The way they work is they run at a set speed until a set temp is hit, then it throttles up to full speed till the temp drops back below the set point..

Soo if you set the temp to 35'c then it will never exceed the temp to throttle the speed up to full power... Follow?

so the fan just runs at whatever idle speed you set it at 30/30/50/60% whatever...

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Posted (edited)

cheers mate thank you ,looks like what I need I don't like the look of those £8 ones

Edited by Jimboo
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@Jimboo

 

One word of warning while I think, there's a blue led indicator light that comes on (I can't remember which way around now it's either on when at full power or on when on idle, I forget).

 

Anyways stick a blob of bluetack or a piece of tape over it, it's probably not enough to fuck with the dark period but why take chances for the sake of an inch of tape eh..

 

That was my only complaint about the product thus far.

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Posted (edited)

Ok gents, further update now that I'm a couple of weeks into my grow...

Week one above ground, when the sproutlings were small enough to be in the heated prop, with the light on 24/0, I had no problems at all keeping a nice comfy 25 degrees or pretty much anything I wanted - This i because with the prop lid on, clearly extraction is not a priority so the fan was off.

At this stage the inkbird unit was able to keep any value I wanted just about.

 

 

Since I turned extraction on... Wow... Major difference!

 

1) I think I could have totally gotten away with a 4" RVK - even at the minimum (about 30%) the 5 incher sucks the sides in like a bunch of fat blokes sucking their stomachs in when a pretty girl walks past. :eek:

 

2) Temps are way harder to keep up now, in this un-heated, un-insulated block outhouse.

 Current heating is provided solely by the £12 Argos electric blanket (thanks again @Joint hogger, good shout!) which sits on a layer of foam insulation, and then has the square mylar drip try that comes with the tent laid over the top of the blanket, between it & the plant pots. I'mnot sure if the blanket is having enough oomph to keep those temps up, although to be fair I've only used it on setting #2, I've not gone as high as #3 as it seems to be on constantly nowadays & it's only a cheap job (not likely to be rated to run 24/7)

 Oh, and my smallest sproutling is still on the heated propagator base, just until she's ready to pot up.

 

3) Currently I'm sitting at about 20 average degree root temps at the height of the day, dropping at night. And it's not even particularly cold weather atm (albeit wet!). Autumn into winter will be HARD.

I'd really like to get back to where I was pre-extraction, where I can comfortably give them 24-25 all day - overheating is not a concern due to the swiftair fan controller - I've tried the fan at max & at 30 degrees that thing will kick into full and suck the paint off the walls

 

I have stolen a half pallet from a mate, and I'm seriously considering a major overhaul of the heating arrangements. How does this sound? (pic below)

 

large.5d12991302910_HeatingDemoPic-Option1.jpg

 

So I'm thinking of the tent sitting on the floor (with a layer of corrugated carboard not pictured as protection from the concrete)

Then an inch thick layer of packing foam as insulation.

Then the pallet, with a couple of tube heaters running underneath.

Then the leccy blanket over the top, and finally the maylar drip-try ontop of the lot to act as protection from sh*t dropping into the heating arrangements.

 

Sound like a plan? Or, do you think that the electric blanket and mylar will provide "too much" insulation from the heat generated by the tubes?

I don't want to go to all that trouble and have a sauna underneath but no heat escaping up to ground level...

 

 

Another option would be to sit the leccy blanket on the foam, then place the tube heaters and pallet ontop of that, and just have the drip try covering the pallet...

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited by Jimmeh

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yes, that'll work just now but come winter it'll be another story as you'll be pissing in the wind trying to keep a concrete outhouse temps above 20c, been there & lost the grow.

 

as for your fan sucking the sides of the tent in, consider getting a fan controller, you could try & get a xpelair wac1 controller as theres still loads of them available,

it'll cost about £30 delivered & its ideal for a 4" or a 5" fan tho it wont run anything bigger as the wac1 can only supply 70watts.

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11 minutes ago, Joint hogger said:

yes, that'll work just now but come winter it'll be another story as you'll be pissing in the wind trying to keep a concrete outhouse temps above 20c, been there & lost the grow.

 

as for your fan sucking the sides of the tent in, consider getting a fan controller, you could try & get a xpelair wac1 controller as theres still loads of them available,

it'll cost about £30 delivered & its ideal for a 4" or a 5" fan tho it wont run anything bigger as the wac1 can only supply 70watts.

I rate the wac1. Had my 5" running off it for a few grows and now slows down my circulation fans.

 

How are you drawing air into the tent? When I first started in the loft it was winter and I had big heat issues. I ended up making a 'heater box' which worked quite well. Basically it's a box with a heater in and ducting from that to the tent. Then the air going into the tent is warmer instead of trying to heat air up that is leaving.

 

The tube heaters and mat will help keep root temps up so I'd keep them in as well.

 

Also insulate the tent. Get some 50mm.(or thicker) celotex stuff and make a frame for the tent out of it I'd you haven't already. Deffo get some for the floor.

 

Here's a pic of the heater box thing I made, you don't need to insulate the box but I had spare boards and thought it might be more effective/efficient

 

3ph

 

large.P1040390.JPGlarge.P1040391.JPGlarge.P1040401.JPGlarge.P1040405.JPG

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Joint hogger said:

yes, that'll work just now but come winter it'll be another story as you'll be pissing in the wind trying to keep a concrete outhouse temps above 20c, been there & lost the grow.

 

as for your fan sucking the sides of the tent in, consider getting a fan controller, you could try & get a xpelair wac1 controller as theres still loads of them available,

it'll cost about £30 delivered & its ideal for a 4" or a 5" fan tho it wont run anything bigger as the wac1 can only supply 70watts.

 

Thanks JH - I currently use one of those cheapo £20 Swiftair temp probe controllers (below)...

 

large.5cfbc59fc27df_Day0-4.jpg

 

It's a bit crude - the lowest it can go seems to be about 30% of max (below that the knob just clicks off), but there is a noticeable (huge) difference between idle speed and max suckage..

You reckon the WAC1 would be a decent replacement? The hum doesn't bother me as such as it's away from the house but if there is a noticeable improvement in performance then I'm in. :)

 

 

So you think the multi-layered approach I outlined in the pic would work? Good, I was worried having the heaters below the blanket and spill-try that all I would be doing is building a layer of heat that ends up trapped below the plants but never gets to reach them - I've seen pallets used before but normally people keep them uncovered - but that seems to me to be begging to have crud, runoff and other detritus drop down & fester in the basement of the tent... :P

 

 

As to winter - I'm sure you're right there mate - I'm hoping to have a 2x grow per yer kind of run - although his year I'm starting a bit late... I don't intend to grow in the depths of winter, but if I can do two autogrows while the weather is relatively mild then I'll be a happy boy. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, 3potheads said:

I rate the wac1. Had my 5" running off it for a few grows and now slows down my circulation fans.

 

How are you drawing air into the tent? When I first started in the loft it was winter and I had big heat issues. I ended up making a 'heater box' which worked quite well. Basically it's a box with a heater in and ducting from that to the tent. Then the air going into the tent is warmer instead of trying to heat air up that is leaving.

 

The tube heaters and mat will help keep root temps up so I'd keep them in as well.

 

Also insulate the tent. Get some 50mm.(or thicker) celotex stuff and make a frame for the tent out of it I'd you haven't already. Deffo get some for the floor.

 

Here's a pic of the heater box thing I made, you don't need to insulate the box but I had spare boards and thought it might be more effective/efficient

 

3ph

 

large.P1040390.JPG

 

I love that box 3ph - I actually read your thread start to finish the other week I was so impressed with your setup mate!

 

I'd love to do something like that - I actually have a design in mind which I think you'll all find pretty nifty - but just for now I have to keep things as discrete and self-contained as possible.

The GF already thinks that I've gone too overboard with this project - you should have seen her face when she saw I'd run ducting to the window! :eek:

For now, things I can secrete inside the tent are fine, and once I'm a few grows in and she shes I'm not running some mastermind operation here then I can safely upgrade the setup but for now I'm having to balance what I'd like vs what I can keep discrete, if you get me.

 

I'm currently drawing air passively from inside the outhouse, and expelling through a window - this is why I'm concentrating on root temps rather than air temps - I know that I have little control over the temp of the air coming in, and the outhouse itself is too large to try and heat the interior of the room before it gets drawn in to the tent.. At least, that's my logic so far...

 

 

What do you think of my design for the root heating element 3PH? Do you reckon that if I have a pallet with a couple of tube heaters, and on top of that pallete layer my electric blanket then the tent's spill-tray, I can get some decent warmth for those roots?

Or do you think that I'd be creating a hot-zone below that is trapped under the layers and never actually gets to the roots?

I'm asking before I commit to buying the tube heaters (not exactly expensive but hey...) and cutting down the pallet...

Edited by Jimmeh

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just to let you know that if you get the green house variety of tube heaters, they normally run at 40w per foot but if you get house tube heaters, they run at 60w per foot & are usually cheaper.

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The only upside of the wac1 (as I understand it) is that the transformer inside is half decent and doesn't cause the hum that the other models do. If you've got a controller and it can do temps is stick with that unless the hum is bothering you. The wac1 you'd have to manually control the speed. 30% is about the lowest you should go on AC fans as well I think, any lower and they can't start under their own power and can over heat.

 

Couldn't say for sure about the design as I've not used heat mats yet so not sure how much heat would get past. I don't think it would cause low temps but not sure how effective it would be either.

 

What are you root temps currently? Have you got insulation on the floor with the mat on top? 

 

Just thinking, you could put some insulation on top of the pots and then put the tube heaters in between the pots creating a warm pocket of air around the pots... Be a pain to keep removing to water tho.

 

Fully understand what you are saying about the missus! When I got going again it was small and ramped up quickly. When she came up and took a look once I was up and running she was worried as it looked 'industrial' and more than the little tent she was used to seeing. She came round eventually... Kinda.

 

Glad the threads were a good read, I half write for anyone to learn from my mistakes and the other half is to remind me what I've done and learn from my own mistakes!

 

3ph

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40% power is the minimum you should run a fan, on the wac1 you should avoid using position 1 as the power is just a bit too low,

some fans will run but some others wont, also the fans internals need a certain amount of air flowing to keep the motor cool.

 

gallery_36349_2174_22587.jpg 

 

gallery_36349_2174_85388.jpg

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How about this. Take one of those tube heaters JH suggested 60w. Make a ply box dimensions of tent just tall enough to fit in tube heater. You lose about 100mm from your tent height with this. Take hole saw same size as pots and drill your pot holes. Put pots in holes. Warm

 air stays inside box keeping roots warm. Might be cold in tent but roots warm. Only work with hand feeding. I could be talking nonsense as had a few Friday hot ones. 

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12 hours ago, ROCKSTEADY6 said:

How about this. Take one of those tube heaters JH suggested 60w. Make a ply box dimensions of tent just tall enough to fit in tube heater. You lose about 100mm from your tent height with this. Take hole saw same size as pots and drill your pot holes. Put pots in holes. Warm

 air stays inside box keeping roots warm. Might be cold in tent but roots warm. Only work with hand feeding. I could be talking nonsense as had a few Friday hot ones. 

 

Now that could be a terrible idea or it could be genius! I've not taken photos but I will update this thread soon - I used a 6" holesaw to allow me to mount an mdf board on the roof of my tent, and run the fan/ducting through it (to avoid the classic 90 degree bend you always get). 

I have some leftover mdf and if the holesaw allows me to sink the pots deep enough then that could work!

Let me think on that over the weekend sir - it could be an excellent little engineering solution to the potential "hotzone" problem...btw losing 10cm is not really a worry - my tent is only 160cm high but with leds and the fan top-mounted, I only have to find room for the filter... 

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