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greensprout

Proposals to liberalise cannabis laws expected before Cabinet Plans will stop short of ‘full-blown’ decriminalisation of possession

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/proposals-to-liberalise-cannabis-laws-expected-before-cabinet-1.3898768

 

Proposals to liberalise the laws on cannabis and other illegal drugs are expected to be brought before Cabinet within weeks.

The plans envisage a move to providing drug counselling, addiction treatment and other health interventions for many users found in possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use.

However, they will stop short of “full-blown” decriminalisation of the personal possession of drugs and some criminal sanctions are expected to remain on the statute book, according to sources.

There remain serious differences within Government on the proposals, which have yet to be finalised. Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan has privately expressed concerns about any proposal to decriminalise the personal possession of drugs, it is understood.

The Department of Health, meanwhile, said on Monday alternative approaches to criminal sanctions were being considered with a view to treating misuse and drug addiction “as a public health issue” in line with the National Drugs Strategy.

It was responding to concerns expressed by 20 senior doctors treating patients for cannabis-related issues in a letter to The Irish Times on Monday. They claimed Ireland was “sleepwalking” into legalisation of the drug on the back of misinformation and a “one-sided debate”.

No agreed report

A working group was set up in 2017 to examine alternative approaches to the possession of drugs for personal use. That group has now reported to the Minister of State for the National Drugs Strategy Catherine Byrne.

She is considering its findings and is expected to bring plans to Cabinet within the next three weeks.

The working group was unable to produce an agreed report on the issue. The group, which was chaired by retired judge Garrett Sheehan, produced a majority report, which itself contained “qualifications”, as well as a minority report, The Irish Times understands.

The departments considering the report held a meeting in recent days in which the issue was discussed.

“If you get caught in the possession of drugs, the question is what first and where to first, is it the gardaí or is it an addiction service. It is unlikely that there will be a full-blown decriminalisation recommended,” one source said.

Medicinal cannabis

Separately, an access programme for medicinal cannabis is to be announced by the Department of Health within weeks.

This will remove the requirement for doctors to secure a licence from the Minister before prescribing cannabis for patients with certain conditions.

While a small number of patients are currently permitted to use cannabis product they have sourced abroad, the department is expected to announce shortly that the first Irish supplies of medicinal cannabis have been sourced.

There was a mixed response to the warnings from the doctors who have set up a campaigning group, the Cannabis Risk Alliance. People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny described the doctors’ remarks as an insult for people campaigning access to medicinal cannabis, while campaigner Vera Twomey, mother of eight-year-old Ava Barry, who has been granted a licence to use medicinal cannabis for her epilepsy, said she was “repulsed” by some of the terminology in the letter.

Welcoming the doctors’ intervention in the debate on cannabis, anti-drugs campaigner Grainne Kenny said politicians were soft on the issue because “there are votes in it”.

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Just now, greensprout said:

anti-drugs campaigner Grainne Kenny said politicians were soft on the issue because “there are votes in it”.


And that's the only leverage we really have because politicians never did anything because it eased pain or helped people.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, greensprout said:

Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan has privately expressed concerns about any proposal to decriminalise the personal possession of drugs

 

 

Nobody is asking you to legalise or decriminalise "DRUGS", we are asking you to legalise Cannabis, a plant that not only has many medicinal benefits, has of yet still not been proven to have caused a single death. However if we get the big book of overdoses out and check the numbers of deaths caused by those "Legal" drugs your doctors prescribe... 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it does get up my nose when these idiots say things like this. Ignorance to the very max. 

 

 

 

Edited by GreenVision
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16 minutes ago, GreenVision said:

we are asking you to legalise Cannabis,

 

I'm not GV, I want the buggers to sod off out of it and leave the whole cannabis arena, it's never been a health or legal issue, until they made it one...:wallbash:

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Posted (edited)

54 minutes ago, stu914 said:

 

I'm not GV, I want the buggers to sod off out of it and leave the whole cannabis arena, it's never been a health or legal issue, until they made it one...:wallbash:

 

 

I'm of the other school mate, I actually welcome a legal market. If this meant I would no longer be able to grow my own then 100% it wouldn't be something I support, but personally I would like to see a regulated Cannabis market in the UK similar to the ones they have over in the US.

 

Again just my 2p but I would welcome high street dispensaries etc. I want it socially accepted and IMO it will never be that until the law lets go of their pride and legalises it. 

 

Although I do agree it was not an issue until they made it one, I look to the future and want all that behind me. I want to be able to smoke weed in the garden whilst eating a burger off the BBQ without the neighbours looking out of windows thinking I'm a criminal, and again regardless of how it became what it is now imo that wont change until it is no longer illegal to consume for recreational use, I want it as innocent as holding a can of larger. 

 

I want to be able to grow my own, smoke my own, and I want to be able to do it without being frowned upon. And I would love to be able to walk into a cafe / dispensary and buy some some nice top shelf Canna in between crops.

 

 

 

e2a: I would love to see a day where I can go to a festival or rave and instead of having to hide my ganja from security there's a stool selling different strains that I can try whilst enjoying the music.

 

 

Edited by GreenVision
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So in a nutshell, nothing fucking changes.  He says - reading this article on the phone in one hand and breaking up bat shit with the other. :fart:

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1 hour ago, stu914 said:

 

I'm not GV, I want the buggers to sod off out of it and leave the whole cannabis arena, it's never been a health or legal issue, until they made it one...:wallbash:

 

If the whole issue of cannabis being any kind of controlled substance was dropped, then it would be freely available to all.  Kids could walk into a shop and buy an oz of bubble hash if they so wished.  Think that'd be a good scenario?

 

While I would love the situation to exist, it's not a reality.  Reality is that any substance with mind altering effects has a potential for abuse - this needs control.  Shouldn't be any more controlled than tobacco or alcohol currently are tho.

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1 hour ago, unity said:

this needs control.  Shouldn't be any more controlled than tobacco or alcohol currently are tho

 

I agree.

How about we make it 18+ to buy it in a shop.

 

 

But how would that stop a 14 year old growing it?

But how do we stop a 14 year old brewing and distilling his own alcohol?

 

 

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Just now, Hugh Jass said:

stop a 14 year old growing it?

 

In some circumstances I am sure they do and will continue too, I wasn't much older when I first attempted a grow.

 

But I would hope that like drinking booze the 14 year old's parents would intervene somewhat. Especially seeing as it would likely be under they're roof, which would make it easier than stopping them drinking. 

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1 hour ago, GreenVision said:

If this meant I would no longer be able to grow my own then 100% it wouldn't be something I support,

 

Guaranteed there will be no home grows allowed, ...they won't nick you for growing though, it'll be Al Capone all over again...

 

58 minutes ago, unity said:

Shouldn't be any more controlled than tobacco or alcohol currently are tho.

 

But it will be, they can't help themselves when their motivation is money and control...they want it all...

 

Let's just say it is legalised for recreational use (use only, not growing) they will tax it to death, dilute and generally fuck with the strains,

and it will be way over black market prices, things will carry on as normal.

Kids will continue to use a twenty as ID, just as they do now, legalisation won't change their habits and there will always be an adult

prepared to get what they want from regulated or criminal sources.

 

There is always the chance they legalise and once everyone shows their faces, criminalise again...they did it with categorisation...

I certainly wouldn't trust them to put a fair legal system in place.

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Just now, stu914 said:

Guaranteed there will be no home grows allowed, ...they won't nick you for growing though, it'll be Al Capone all over again...

 

 

But if that's the case then we will be no worse off than we are now, we will still say fuck you and grow our own. It really doesn't matter how they regulate growing, of we / you as a grower don't agree just crack on as you are and grow regardless.

 

I think personally we only have to gain from a legal regulated market in the UK. As it stands we get nicked for growing, if Cannabis is legalised and only licensed premises are allowed to grow for example, the only difference to me is that I can smoke in my house and garden without fear of arrest and I can buy from a shop if I run out of ganja. As far as growing is concerned I would just continue to grow illegally. Although a little more I must admit lol  

 

 

I also see it odd that some folks seem to want medicinal but don't want a legal cannabis market in the UK. I cant see how it can be used as a medicine for those that want to smoke / vape if its not legal. Medicinal use without legal Cannabis in the UK will be the worst result IMO, because this leaves them able to produce and sell without allowing us to possess or grow at all.

 

 

3 minutes ago, stu914 said:

There is always the chance they legalise and once everyone shows their faces, criminalise again...they did it with categorisation...

I certainly wouldn't trust them to put a fair legal system in place.

 

I do feel you on this, I just hope because so many of us will appear from nowhere to buy legally there will be too many people to now call criminal. The UK has little space in nick for criminals as it is. 

 

Plus there is the cash attached to the whole scenario as well. I think the first annual income tax projections based on quarterly income from now legal Cannabis sales will raise even the most sceptical of reefer madness brows.   

 

Another thing that I do think some underestimate is that us tokers / growers stick together. Its not just a business its a way of life, like the fella at the local bike shop, you don't mind handing him your money because he is like you, love bikes. I think this will help us keep the UK from falling too far into the hands of the government. 

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1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:

But how would that stop a 14 year old growing it?

But how do we stop a 14 year old brewing and distilling his own alcohol?

 

We don't - we educate them to do it properly :) 

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1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:

 

I agree.

How about we make it 18+ to buy it in a shop.

 

 

But how would that stop a 14 year old growing it?

But how do we stop a 14 year old brewing and distilling his own alcohol?

 

 

I think I was around that age when I tried brewing my own lager, parents fully aware, not that I asked.

Didn't end well but that was down to my crap brewing, there were some minor explosions,  thankfully in the garden.

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6 hours ago, unity said:

 

If the whole issue of cannabis being any kind of controlled substance was dropped, then it would be freely available to all.  Kids could walk into a shop and buy an oz of bubble hash if they so wished.  Think that'd be a good scenario?

 

While I would love the situation to exist, it's not a reality.  Reality is that any substance with mind altering effects has a potential for abuse - this needs control.  Shouldn't be any more controlled than tobacco or alcohol currently are tho.

Cannabis is freely available now and in schools, in fact I was speaking with a person last week, and they said their teenager could buy it no problem, when I was told the cost I nearly fainted.

 

Reality is children can buy it now, and they don't know what they are getting, it could be mixed with all sorts of rubbish.  In regards to mind altering effects what does alcohol abuse do, also alcohol is addictive, in my opinion cannabis is not addictive as I cant remember that last time I smoked; was it 2 years or 3, I don't know.  I think the facts are, any drug taken whether it be legal or not at a young developing age can cause damage, a bit like feeding a baby coffee along with its milk.  They better stop selling glue in shops in case someone buys it and dies from sniffing the glue.  Where do you stop?

 

We are already too much of a nanny state, lets not encourage more.  I think you have lost touch with the real issues that face young people today.

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15 hours ago, photosynthesis said:

Cannabis is freely available now and in schools

 

15 hours ago, photosynthesis said:

Reality is children can buy it now

 

 

I can assure you it has been this way down in the South East since at the very least the 90's. 

 

That's another reason I welcome change, bring Cannabis out of the shadows. 

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