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FatBoy77

A pheno/mother hunt.... how many beans?

28 posts in this topic

That's the lass I'm after, had headbanger recommended to me by quite a few folk.  Cheers for the info dude.

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Posted (edited)

On 28/04/2019 at 2:32 PM, GreenVision said:

You could get a keeper in a pack of 3 fems

 

:lookaround:  Fems are S1's mate so they should all be the same genetically. There's no new genetic information added to the plant, they're made by reversing a female and using that pollen to pollinate the same unreversed female(s). 

Looking for pheno's in S1's is pure folly, either they're all the same or they're not S1. 

Look for phenotypes in regular or F2, F3, etc seeds. Simples. :)  

 

Edited to add - What I'm saying is if you pop 3 fems and you'll either get 3 keepers or 3 that aren't. lol  

Edited by Saddam
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Saddam said:

Fems are S1's mate so they should all be the same genetically. There's no new genetic information added to the plant

 

I understand why some may think so, but genetics isn't as simple as this. Your forgetting dormant and recessive genetics that are still in the original selfed plant. These hidden genetics can and will show in the resulting seeds.

 

In a simple form of explaining this. If a seed was made using Aa (mother) and Bb (father) it could be any number of combinations, again a simple illustration. So lets say we get aB in our resulting seed that we then grow into a female. The genetic code for that missing A and / or b still have the potential to surface as recessive / dormant genes.

 

The same basis applies to when we do F1's, we have male and female from the same parents and we cross them, but in the resulting seeds we can and often do get a vast array of different genotypes from the resulting seeds because of recessive genetics coming through. Which is why to really lock back in the desired traits breeders then go to F4 or cubing.

 

But, we haven't added any "New" genetics to this cross, both of the "Children" seeds used for the cross are "Born" of the same mother, but we can awake dormant genetics in the cross. The same applies to selfing. 

 

I will say that what you have said is a half truth, there is less chance of recessive genetics as you only have a single plants dormant genetics that could resurface. But add in the way you have used mutation and stress to gain your S1 seeds there is 100% a chance you can see new genetics in the resulting seeds.

 

 

e2a: something I've learned from hacking and crossing and reading all manor of varying opinions in books, the seed you grow you only see a portion of what was given by its parents. There is ALWAYS the chance for new genetics if you take that seed forward. You can get a pair of parents to the point they breed very homogeneous offspring but you can NEVER 100% guarantee their offspring wont onward breed recessive and dormant genetics. 

 

 

GV.

 

 

 

Edited by GreenVision
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Posted (edited)

Yep, figured that but thanks for the explanation, nice way of putting it.  When I first started I thought a pack of fems that had been back-crossed would only show 3-5 pheno types.  As soon as I popped my first 10 fem beans (all Dinafem Original Amnesia) and got eight different plants I knew I was wrong.

 

That's not me dissing dinafem either, I'm sure my novice barely green fingers helped bring out all those recessive genes you mention.

Edited by FatBoy77
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13 hours ago, Saddam said:

 

:lookaround:  Fems are S1's mate so they should all be the same genetically. There's no new genetic information added to the plant, they're made by reversing a female and using that pollen to pollinate the same unreversed female(s). 

Looking for pheno's in S1's is pure folly, either they're all the same or they're not S1. 

Look for phenotypes in regular or F2, F3, etc seeds. Simples. :)  

 

Edited to add - What I'm saying is if you pop 3 fems and you'll either get 3 keepers or 3 that aren't. lol  

 

I don't know where you've learnt all that but its way off the mark Im afraid.  

 

 

As for how many plants you should use to select a mother from......

 

 

 

 

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I am currently looking up some sativa hybrids mostly and looking for a mum or two.

 

Has anyone tried only to veg for about 2 weeks(2nd set of true leafs)and than went 12/12 and re-vegged their best plant?

 

Think this could be the fasted way rather than popping 10 beans vegging them for 4 weeks half will be males and less total plant count(taking a cutting or two from each plant prior to flowering)

 

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1 hour ago, joba said:

and re-vegged their best plant?

 

You mean re-veg after harvest?

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4 hours ago, joba said:

Has anyone tried only to veg for about 2 weeks(2nd set of true leafs)and than went 12/12 and re-vegged their best plant?

Yep. Just put a couple into re-veg from similar treatment today as it happens. 

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23 hours ago, GreenVision said:

 

You mean re-veg after harvest?

yes

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Just now, joba said:

yes

 

Can be done, leave the lower on don't trim it during bloom or harvest, when you harvest make sure you leave several growth points still on the plant low down, the more the better, leave plenty of leaves of varying sizes.

 

Remove from the pot once harvest is done and trim 1-2" from the soil off the sides of the root mass with a serrated knife and at least 2" off the bottom of the soil and re-pot into fresh soil. Place under white light on 24 hour schedule and feed a root stim and 50% veg nutrients. 

 

After 3-5 weeks you will have new mutated growth in the form of curly twisted leaves with no points, can now up the feed and drop root stim if need be. After another 2-3 weeks you will have fresh bladed leaves and if you so wish you can then take some fresh clones of leave it until you do and keep as mother, although I'd suggest taking clones and growing out a fresh mother. 

 

Its not 100% certain but in most cases this method had worked for me.

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, GreenVision said:

Remove from the pot once harvest is done and trim 1-2" from the soil off the sides of the root mass with a serrated knife and at least 2" off the bottom

 

For what sized pot?  Could be over kill on a smaller plant.  

 

If repotting Ive had best results with using a semi sterile, low nutrient airy medium like coir with plenty of perlite (hydrated in weak high N nutrient solution)

 

Some pics for you @joba

 

large.mwfrv.jpglarge.mwfrv2.jpglarge.mwfrv3.jpg

 

large.motjher.jpg

Edited by Amarillo slim
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2 hours ago, Amarillo slim said:

For what sized pot?  Could be over kill on a smaller plant

 

I had hoped most would read it and make a decision based on what they have. If you were in a 5-6 litre pot I'd think you would just get the idea and pot up. 

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@GreenVision&Amarillo slim

 

Thank you:yep:

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