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Cana + Coir + problems

19 posts in this topic

I have tried to trouble shoot, even taken the drastic action of investigating whats going on.

I have tried various things to resolve the problems I have had.


1st, leaves were turning up at the tips and some were drooping, so I held off on watering, after about 5 days of it perking up and the pot feeling like it was empty, I watered it with a small amount of feed as prescribed, included some Rhizo as it may be a root problem.


Keep in mind I been round that block twice after resolving what the issue might be, the plant responded.

So after I had decided to help air I increased the perlite mix ratio and returned what was removed and the plant perked right up.

So I kept air going 24/7


A couple of days later, watered again with CalMag + Rhizo nutrients and feed.

This was 1 Litre mix of water in to a 10L pot. SO I didn't dump all the water in one area, I spread it about so that it would seep down. quickly in the higher mix medium.

It perked right up and then progressively over 8 hours, some leaves were still turning at the tip.

I had investigated once more and found that the likley source of the problem and found that the roots were in a clump of something that seemed to resemble compost that has compacted, so I gently brok it up and this seems to be the main issue with the water logging.

The leaf tips are still turning brown but not curling. One has spots of brown on it, is this a nutrient problem? I have added Cal Mag and Rhizo to the water / feed, what now? Any ideas?

To give an idea of its current growth rate, 


Its pushing out its 3rd set of 5 fingers


It had pushed out 3 sets of 3 fingers prior to that


The lowest leaves have already been removed to prevent any rotting or fungal growth.


A friend who started a few weeks earlier with the same seeds, his are like need taming. He has already had one agressive cut back on the lower leaves because they are not getting light, interfering with air so he pruned them and his are putting out 9 fingers.


My environment has adequate air circulation, is kept at around 20 degrees at night, the grow space is around 24 to 25 degrees when lights on. Humidity varies from 50% to 70%, depending on watering.


All excess that drains through is collected and removed from the space to prevent stale air conditions, it gets fresh air from the environment so its around room temperature.

Your ideas on next steps, I have laid off water and feed for a few days now.



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How big are the plants? It's tricky getting the watering right if you have small plants in big pots. Leaf tips turning up is usually over watering but I find some leaf curling is normal in coco. Tips going brown is a sign of over nuting.


Can you get some pics up?

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I'll second the call for some pics...


You should, ideally, be watering/feeding every day in coco - just a little when they are very small, but watering until 20 - 30% run-off when they are established. Do you get run-off when watering? Potting your plants up during the grow will also help avoid problems. If you have been staggering your feed/water schedule, and not feeding until run off, you may have a fairly unfriendly environment for your roots to grow in.


I'm not sure why your roots would clump together in something resembling compacted compost when you are in coco! That's very odd.



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A 10l pot is pretty big for coco and to saturate with some run-off from dry will take at least 2.5-3l. If you're getting run-off after 1litre then they have probably not had enough time to dry between waterings (watering every day or more often is ideal once they are established, but not before).

But yeh, pics ftw.

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I didn't seed it, a friend did. I got it when it was about 13 cm tall, it only had its starting leaves and one pair of leaves with 1 finger that was quickly followed by 4 sets of leaves with 3 fingers then it started pushing out 5 fingers and has done so ever since, however this issue seems to be a combination of problems, one of them is mobile, one is not.


I have taken the plant out of the medium completely and re-potted it and in the time period since posting this, when I decided to re-pot and now, the plant has shown some progress, I check it every 4 to 6 hours and see progress but not on the scale my friends are and they are all same seed stock from same seed bank.


I removed the leaves that were past recovery and took them off before any fungal issues were introduced. There is still leaf curl that I am keeping an eye on, the leaves I trimmed the dead bits off have seemed to stabilise. Rather than just lop them off, they are the sacrificial leaves if the mobile issue does not cease.


Images = No idea where your upload button is.




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Thread is a bit old (they've updated the site a few times since and it's changed each time, and there's no concise 1 page 'how-to' anymore (at least that I could find)), but it should be in there somewhere lol . Essentially though it's click on your profile pic, top left, click on albums, create album, upload pics. You might need to set your gallery to public also. Then when you go to post, there should be an 'insert other media' button above the 'submit reply' button bottom right.


Different plants even from the same seed-stock can have very different growth patterns/rates and phenotypes, fwiw.

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I think the re-pot was the best thing to do. Did you use a smaller pot this time? I suspect she'll recover now.

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The re-pot was in to a pot the same size.


I removed the plant and clump from roots and carefully re-potted with a mix that is getting on for nearly 60:40 as I believe that a majority of the issues the plant is having is that it is one of those rare situations where I have a fussy plant.

I have been watching plenty of tubers who have well developed channels and also looking at similar plants and how they grow and have got a pretty good idea if the situation and broke down the problem to start with the simplest of all issues, the water.

When that was dealt with, I then went on to look at other problems, I have through investigation narrowed the problems down to 


Water Logging - now dealt with
Calcium and Magnesium Deficiency - now ongoing treatment

Now it is presenting A potassium deficiency which I can see as being the right diagnosis given the amount of changes in the pot as there has been fresh coir applied and mixed, so P will be loads lower than if I had just re-potted with same material, the aim was to avoid burning the plant from excessive Nitrogen.


I am hoping that this is the right path.


If you think I am barking up the wrong lamp post, then throw one out there and I will investigate it.


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The main reason being that there were some complications with the seeding phase.

We has that week of lots of sun, well Junior shot up so fast that I think it shocked itself and is struggling because of a number of things, including feed issues that hopefully are cleared up.

I water sparsely and as soon as I hear run off, I cease and its usually days later before i need to water again.

I am mostly trying to encourage roots to seek out water by watering mostly to the edges and ending with a few spoon fulls at the stem.

I will spray with combinations of Cal Mag and Rhizo through out the day and the quantity is very small, like when you spray colone on you, that amount.

Not wanting to cause too many problems but a little assistance is needed and to encourage roots, best getting it in the part of the plant that most receptive rather than the part thats having problems.

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I would guess it was just being in a pot slightly too large and getting waterlogged, as you suggested. Possibly a bit cold too, if it occasionally went much below the 20c you observed. I'd bet it will recover nicely now it's starting to root out properly and you've made the mix more airy. Should only need CalMag if you're in a softwater area, fwiw. Spraying rhizo can't hurt though.


P is phosphorous btw, K for potassium.

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If I had a smaller pot... However, the amount of watering is minimal to be on the quantity side of no more than 6 Litres in total since starting and 2 of those were plain water as I am aware of putting too much nutrients in and creating build up that burns roots, so I have alternated between feed A+B and filtered water.


I meant  K booster as I had PK booster on my mind but a tuber advised an alternative, 1st to change the PH and if no change in a week, to then add some flowering feed or add a PK booster.

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I tell you, at this rate I will rip the bloody thing up.

I can't believe it, I felt down as far as I could to feel that the mix was nearly dry, no moisture since the change.

So I thought that it will need some feed as it really hasn't had that much.

Watered the plant with ONE EFFING LITRE of feed.

Just checked on it, the bottom pair of leaves look like they're about to drop off.


I have done everything, ensures temperature, air, water and environmental are within tolerance and STILL THE THING IS UPSET.


Really at my whits end with it.



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what ec and ph are you feeding them at?

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1lt fluid in a 10lt pot is both too much for a small plant and not enough for that size pot... I have developed plants in 6lt pots, I feed them 2lt and get just over 1/4lt back...



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I really am now of the opinion that this is a fussy plant.


The facts.


Ambient temperature never falls below 20°C


Day Time temperature is average of 25°C


The humidity is an average of 54%


The water is room temperature, around 22°C


The potting mix is a good 60:40 mix


It is now well aired, the watering has been sparse and the last watering response was annoying to say the least but then I left it for 9 hours and looked in and the one side of the plant, the lower two sets that decided to curl up under, the one side was stuck out and happy while the other side remained curled up.


Its new growth if you look at the images in the upload.


No denying it, its growing, its happy and unhappy and is IMHO a fussy plant.

I Really don't think it matters what I do, its not going to do much other than keep on like this, if theres no progress in a week, its going to be left largely to its own devices and I will be starting a new one.

You know, you give it a good home, warm, not too cold, not too hot, treated pretty well, fed and its needs taken care of.

I mentioned this issue to the friend who seeded it for me, didn't understand, so the stuff must have had some contaminant in it and when wet formed a near solid lump because it was well weird stuff... So even he is baffled by it.

I went over my figures for the feed mixes I have made so far, checks out and I am pretty confident in my maths given I attained a Grade B in Higher Mathematics last year, i wanted to test a theory about what my school did to me, so I get a grade B and at school I was put in the dunces set at school, hmmmm.... Anyway, long story short, my CANNA 1:250 mix pans out just fine.


I put 1 Ltr in and get about 5% out. It is applied in a spiral motion around the outside so that not all the pot is 100 % over saturated, the majority is out towards the edges now I know the size of the root ball, if the roots are not encouraged to seek out moisture, its going to be a perpetual process of watering and watch it bitch.




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