Water for 2 weeks, still not burning clean

[Aphatspliff 769]

Recently completed my first grow. Really pleased with how it's turned out but only one problem, some of it doesn't burn very clean when smoked! I did 4 cuts in coco, using Bio Bizz nutes. The bloke in the shop said I didn't need to flush with organics and also read the same here. I still decided to feed just ph'd water for 2 weeks before chop. Yet when smoked it burns mostly light grey ash but some bits black. Not hard ash but still not pleasant and a few friends commented on it. 2 of the 4 plants seem to be worse for whatever reason.

 

Bit more info of the grow. Bio Bizz bio heaven, grow and fish mix, bloom and algamic used. Wouldn't bother with the bio heaven or algamic again and won't be using grow and f mix together again either (too much N!) will stick with just fish mix and bloom in future. I also top dressed with a little bat quano and watered in around week 2 or 3 of flower. The plants dried in 5 days in tent with the light off and extraction low. A lot faster than I was hoping to be honest but have since found out it was probably due to fluctuating temps and low humidity. 

 

I would have thought I'd have been fine with 2 weeks plain water before the chop, I know it's not a proper flush but considering you supposedly don't need to flush with organics I can't understand why it's not burning white ash!?

 

Any help or thoughts where I may be going wrong?

 

Cheers,

Aphat 

[the lone deranger 2,795]

Is it properly dry?

 

 

If yes, then How much grow/fish mix etc were you using ml per litre? 

 

If you over fed throughout the whole grow until the last two weeks, no amount of flushing/tapering will help.

 

 

 

 

[stickyblack 3,141]

49 minutes ago, Aphatspliff said:

 I still decided to feed just ph'd water for 2 weeks before chop.

 

That's the problem mate.

 

No need to ph in compost.. it buffers naturally generally when using off the shelf composts. If your building your own compost then yes you buffer but best with natural buffers.

 

Eta. No need to flush, but I would taper your feed down.. switching to Nitrogen feed for the last week or so. 

 

Eta. Just use compost, fishmix and bloom. No need for the rest. Athough mycorrhizal (friendly fungi) is a good addition, very cheap and efficient imo. But I would stick with just the two bottles first, you will also see the difference when/if you add friendly fungi.

Edited February 11, 2018 by stickyblack

[Aphatspliff 769]

@the lone deranger

 

Cheers for your input. Yes it's properly dry.

 

Used .5ml bio heaven, 1ml grow, 1ml fish mix and 3ml bloom per litre for most of the flowering period but tapered the bloom down towards the end before the 2 weeks of water.

[Aphatspliff 769]

Hi @stickyblack

 

Cheers for your input. I didn't think coco was classed as compost and you needed to ph your water? 

 

Surely PHing my water down to 6.0 shouldn't have caused it to burn dirty?

[lildaveham 17,825]

Imo

 

grow or fish mix not both.

 

You may have overfed them at those levels .

 

eta Also dry in 5 days with up and down temps won’t have helped, a long slow dry is preferable sometimes even 3-4 weeks.

 

peace.

 

lil d.

Edited February 11, 2018 by lildaveham
Drying times

[GSZZ 25,525]

58 minutes ago, Aphatspliff said:

I did 4 cuts in coco, using Bio Bizz nutes.

 

This is a bit of an issue in itself, as others have mentioned is adding loads of pH down (phosphorous) which will ruin end quality. 

 

I think coco on its own can't really sustain the sort of microbial life required to break down all of  the bio bizz nutes. Half of it is more or less instantly  available to your plant where as the other half is slow release, via breakdown. If you are going to stick to coco try adding worm castings, rock dust and charge or something similar, innoculate and treat it more like a soil than coco, I think you will probably have better results.

[Aphatspliff 769]

Nice one @lildaveham

 

Your totally right about one or the other. I found out the hard way and I'm pretty sure I suffered nitrogen toxicity because of it. Hence why I said I shan't be doing that again lol!

 

Maybe that's the reason for black ash?

[stickyblack 3,141]

Sorry mate, completely missed the coco part .. on a desktop pc now, i will try not to skip lines now & saves me editing multiple times 

 

If your in coco, are using coco specific feeds? I cant actually remember if BB did coco specific feeds, i think they maybe did back in the day but cant seem find them now.. Generally BB is used as a compost feed, iirc if you was to use them in coco them you would need some sort of base for the organic nutrients to breakdown, which then the plants can feed, loam for example... Thats going back down to route of building your own compost really.

 

Something along them lines anyways, i really havent played around with how i grow in a long time.. I just use KISS- base, grow and bloom.. + some sort of root hormone/granules depending on medium..

 

eta: I would get away from the idea of growing organic, growing under a light is not organic imo

eta: Silicon on useful but iirc you only use it upto week 2/3 of flower, before flowers are showing. This can also effect taste.

 

eta:  @Golden Syrup is on the money there  .. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by stickyblack

[Aphatspliff 769]

@Golden Syrup

 

Cheers for your help. I've also come to realise this and this time round I've got my discos in light mix. Will only be using the odd bit of bio silicon, fish mix and bloom. I only did coco on my first go as it's what my friends use.

[Aphatspliff 769]

@stickyblack

 

Ha ha no worries mate. Did spin my head for a min 

 

Like I said in my last post on this thread, I now realise the bio bizz nutes are more suited for compost and I've gone for BB light mix for my 2nd attempt. I like the bb nutes as always used them outdoors and enough lads on here grow some top shelf looking herb using them. If I don't get on with it, I may go back to coco and look at the growers ark coco nutes as they also seem well recommended on here. But for now I'll try get to grips with bio bizz 

[Aphatspliff 769]

Just quick thought. If I went back to coco in the future would recommend doing a proper flush on them, running is it 2-3x? the pot size of water through them?

[GSZZ 25,525]

@Aphatspliff I dunno where the whole 2/3x the pot size in water through the pot thing came from but I wouldn't bother doing that it just seems like it would hurt the plant more than help anything. 

 

Maintain 10 - 20% run off in coco throughout the entire grow and keep the E.C as low as you can get away with, drop any "boosters" or "PKs" 2/3 weeks before the end and then use a flushing agent like GA flush for 10 days then water for 4 days before chop, maintaining 10 - 20% run off. I do it this same way and I'm very happy with the burn and taste of my weed. For example I never exceeded 1.4 EC on my last grow and dropped bio boost at the end of week 6 out of 9.

[Aphatspliff 769]

Cheers for the advice  @Golden Syrup

 

The flush thing is something a few of my friends do who grow in coco. They say that the plants love it!? I just assumed it was the norm. He didn't seem to think just feeding water was a proper flush?

[MicroDoser 805]

It is chemistry that will help here then working back to diagnose.

 

So, mostly light ash but some black. White ash is carbon phosphate produced through pyrolysis. To get it you need the carbon (plentiful) and phosphorous (variable) to be present in your dried plant matter. Without the phosphorous your plant matter burns to carbon, which is black. There are many possible reasons why K would not be available at the levels the plant (and you) would prefer.

 

If I remember my soil days correctly, Phos locks out at around PH 5.5 or lower and is best absorbed at 6.0 or higher so that does not seem to be the issue. If nothing else works though, I would suggest a point or two higher so between 6.1-6.3 (but do this last, follow Golden's advice first)

 

It seems you were feeding enough, so that seems unlikely also.

 

From reading the thread, I suspect the mismatch between feed and substrate meant poor K uptake or availability which then meant poor final product burning.

 

I would follow Golden Syrup's advice to use proper feeds with the right substrate and make sure at least 10% runs off with every water/feed.

 

Once your dried product has enough phosphorous in it, you will see a smoke that does not need relighting, and burns clean leaving white ash.