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ananda

In soil, things seem to go wrong after 6 weeks

28 posts in this topic

As for run off, I do usually water with run off but one grow I didn't and it was fine, well as fine as usual anyway. :) 

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Found it!: 

 

@Ital, you may have something to add to this thread!!

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12 hours ago, ananda said:

I think if I was doing anything majorly wrong with the feed it would show up before week 6 in flower.

 

I'll use one of your pics from your album to illustrate my point

 

Your lower growth is the first to be affected by lockout but if you look at the newer growth at the top the leaves are beginning to claw which indicates too much N.

 

In soil with organic based feeds it takes a while for the soil critters to break down the nutrients for the plant to take up so if the plant is already overfed and you're feeding more grow to combat the yellowing at the bottom then you're only compounding the issue and then you get total lockout when your plant switches to flower, after the stretch phase excess N inhibits flower development and you carry on by switching over and feeding the same high strength bloom feed which then by week 6 you get lockout from excess potassium which locks out the likes of calcium, magnesium, zinc and iron.

 

Potassium deficient leaf and plant pics to compare with your 6 weeks

 

potasio-3.jpg

 

potasio-4.jpg

 

potasio-5.jpg

 

Hope this helps solve your problem.

 

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Thanks @SMEG HEAD I take your point and you might be right - but the lower growth is effected first when you haven't fed enough too - so what you are seeing in that pic could just as well be explained by me not feeding it enough in the first few weeks and then over-compensating later when I see that. That is what I think happened with that plant, I was deliberately being very stingy with the Grow, I gave none for the first three weeks (which is a week too long with PM Soil I reckon) and then introduced the Grow at 0.5ml or something like that, then I saw the deficiency and over-did the Grow.

 

But it could be that I am causing lockout in general with most grows and that is why I am having the problem, so in the bigger picture you might well be right and I am going to watch the feeding from now on. I always seem to get burned tips, maybe it would be a good sign if I can keep them green without the burnt tips. Ta mate. :)

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Sorry if this is a bit obvious but surely they should start looking a bit autumnal, yellowing a bit and looking like they're approaching the end of their life when you're that far into flowering...if my plants were still completely verdant with 2-3 weeks to go I'd be a bit concerned...what are yields and quality like?

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When you diagnose alot of grow problems you start to notice trends, generally if things start going downhill between week 4 and 6 in flower its usually down to something like insufficient rooting, too wet pots, too cold or something a long those lines or all at once. What is your potting up regime, and how long do you give them in the final pot before turning the lights over to flower, is the water you are using to feed them a correct temp and have you turned your heaters back on now the warm weather is behind us? 

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@Billy2Hats They really start looking unhealthy at week 6, sometimes 5. I have had grows were they have looked healthy all the way till the end and I think that should be possible all the time. Peoples plants tend to look autumnal in the last week or so cos people cut back on the feed and flush.

 

@Golden Syrup I think my environment is ok. However I did have a year of pythium and other infections due to a dodgy bag of Clover I bought from a Nursery and I am only just getting back on my feet after that devastation. I cleaned the hell out of everything over and over and used lots of beneficials and my last two grows are the first that have actually produced anything rather than just dying of root-rot. So, I am remembering back to before that and I always (with a few exceptions, including my first grow) seem to hit a wall at 6 weeks and it happened again with the last two grows.

 

To answer your questions....I pot up 3 or 4 times usually, though this grow I am taking a chance and potting up only twice, my final pots are 6l. I give them about two weeks or more in the final pot before flipping to 12/12, I make sure I see roots coming out the bottom. I used to over-water so that could have been an issue in the past but since the root rot I make sure I don't do that anymore. I use water with a temp of 20c plus or minus 1c. I keep the tent at a decent temp all the time, apart from occasional cock-ups. I have a Rootit thermostat and heat-mat and also use a tube heater when needed.

 

TBH, I think lockout by week 6 sounds the most likely atm because as far as I can tell the environment is ok and the basic stuff like water temps etc are ok too. Since the Pythium my grows have not been as vigorous as they used to be and I think I may still have some kind of low level infection issue going on, but like I say the 6 weeks thing was happening before that anyway.

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I know exactly what @ananda is talking about and theres no doubt in my mind, the key to green plants all the way through (assuming the environment is right) is sieving your compost, adding rockduct and use funghi and inoculants

 

Its exactly how oldtimer says, have you read old timers posts from years ago?, search for soil secrets and theres been loads of discussions about the benefits

 

Everyone knows old timer but I dont think a fraction have read what he has wrote over the years, my grows have been pretty shit for years now since I stopped using all the magic I used to. Sieving the compost is an extremely important step that not many seem to bother with, its unbelievable the shite that is in there

Edited by Davey Jones
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Hi @Davey Jones it was OT1 who diagnosed the root rot and helped me beat it. :) I have read a lot of his stuff actually and I think I have the basics in place, though I could still could be making mistakes that I don't know about.

 

PM Soil doesn't need much sieving, but I do give it a riddle and the only thing you find are hard clumps, that I break up. There's no shit in there. Rockdust is something I am thinking of adding actually, but haven't yet. 

 

I have always used innocculants, and I used more of them in my fight against the root rot. Right from the start I potted up with PM granules, now I use TNC Myccormax. I have recently started using Ecothrive Charge and Biosys too because of the root rot and I think it was that and all the cleaning that helped beat it. 

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27 minutes ago, ananda said:

To answer your questions....I pot up 3 or 4 times usually, though this grow I am taking a chance and potting up only twice, my final pots are 6l. I give them about two weeks or more in the final pot before flipping to 12/12, I make sure I see roots coming out the bottom.

 

Just my 2p mate but I think herein lies the problem ie insufficient rooting. As a rule of thumb I'd always give them a week or two extra after seeing roots at the drain holes before flipping the lights. Density of the root mass is what we want, I think a lot of people see the thick white ropey roots loosely circling the outer of the medium and think it's time to pot on, I like to wait until it's a bit more tightly circled and webbed with fine feeder roots/mycorr. When the roots have reached the outer edge theres probably still a lot of the inner mass of the medium not sufficiently rooted, like big empty wet spaces and potting on at this point just compounds the issue as the white ropey roots race for the edge of the pot/drain holes. 

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@Golden Syrup I didn't mean I pot on as soon as I see roots at the bottom, I meant I wouldn't pot on unless I had seen them. 

 

I tend to go by the time in the pot and as I say, I give them at least two weeks. Do you think I should give it longer? I have read of lots of people giving them a week or two in the final pot before flipping and they seem to do ok, so I was going by that really.

 

But yea, it's certainly a possibility and I am sure it's been the cause in some cases, for example my last grow - I checked the roots after I chopped it and I wasn't happy with the amount of rooting.

 

As an average, how long do you think I should let them root the final pot for before flipping? How long is too long? I know it's going to vary, perhaps I am better off pulling them out of the pot before watering and having a look. Thanks mate. :)

 

So, from now on I am going to be more careful not to overfeed (and possibly cause lockout) and also make sure about the roots before flipping. :) 

 

I am actually going to try coco when I have used these organic nutes, lol. I still have a few litres though and also would like to solve this.

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Well first up go read how a plant works (any plant!) Nutes fall into two categories, mobile and immobile,  if lower, older leaves are effected then you've a problem with mobile nutes, the plant is moving nutes it's short of from old growth so new growth isn't compromised. If new growth is pale it's lacking a immobile nute. :)

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