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Lord Steppington

How To Manage Sativas Indoors:

30 posts in this topic

So I found this post while doing some research. It has already been posted to UK420 by @@corky1968 but it is hidden away in a thread from 2009 - it can be found here: Highland Thai And Kerala thread in The Real Seed Company forum.

Big thanks to @@corky1968 for finding this and for generally being a treasure of great info :)

If you know who wrote this, please let us know. If you can update the info, again, please comment. I expect living soil and CMH lighting is radically changing how manageable NLD cultivars are to do indoors, so anybody with experience of both/either please share :)

HOW TO MANAGE SATIVAS INDOORS:
The method I use for the 100% sativas such as any of the African Seeds strains, South East Asians-etc, is similar, whether I grow them indoors completely or start them indoors and then take them out. Chris from African Seeds a few years ago told me that it was near impossible to get a good harvest from his strains if grown under a HID environment using only soil as a medium due to their excessive stretching and high light power requirements. Making it open wide and tall and not keeping it compact. I have informed him since that this is not the case. He sent me a sample of all his strains to try out and give him my opinion on them (which btw: I loved so much that 2 years later I ordered 3 packs of each one off him that I gladly paid for). All except for his Tanzanian as it was not on his list of strains back then. After the first go, I realized the only problem with growing them indoors was, as he said, their stretch. But to eliminate that, I merely grew them from the beginning under 12/12 regime AND all in small pots till they showed sex (at 5 weeks) prior to transplanting into a slightly larger pot, but not too large (I'll explain this). This is how I do it:
Start them at 12/12 (no vegging at all) in a small milkshake sized pot, and crop the top when they "first show sex (around the 6th node - around 1 foot tall)", at the 3rd true node (the cut that is). Then transplant into 6-8 inch pots, they'll finish stretching at 3-4 feet tall and very bushy with 2 main colas and a lot of lower branching that end just passed mid-way up the 2 main colas...thereby making them very indoor friendly due to their low height. Now having controlled their height, the only other thing one need do is assure a good yield. To maximize the yield, transplant again at 4weeks flower (after 2 weeks of pre-flower/showing-sex) into a large pot for mega yield indoors 2 to 2.5 months after that...or..in the case of Rooi Bart, harvesting can occur 1.5 months/6 weeks after the final transplant.
The trick to successfully growing 100% sativa indoors so that they yield more than a good hybrid (ie compact with many many bud sites) is:
a. Never veg from seed - 12/12 from start to finish. This does not increase male rates in Africans dramatically, as it does in many other gene pools.
b. Never transplant the first time (upon showing sex) into a pot that is LARGER than 8 inches in diameter (6 inch diameter pot is better for grows under 600W) - or they'll stretch to the moon.
c. Once they've finished stretching (5-6 weeks after the first transplant), and NOT BEFORE, transplant into as large a pot as possible for scrog type grow till finished. They'll then grow out and fill with compact internodes even though they won't use all the new soil in the larger new pot that they've been put into(they won't finish root bound, but they'll finish with an excellent yield given their size). Also given that the plant will NOT root bound itself in this last pot, they breath well till harvest and fan leaves find it easier to remain green even after the buds amber up. So beware of this...do not wait for yellowing fan leaves as a sign of maturity if using this method.
I have also grown 2 types of Durban Poison indoors - African Seeds's and Dutch Passion's. DP's is a hybrid so I vegged it as normal for 5-6 weeks before 12/12 for a good yield. BUT... using the above pre-mentioned IBL method, African Seeds's Durban Poison yields twice what Dutch Passion's does when both strains finish at the same height. About 4 foot tall and cropped once giving 2 main colas. The difference is amazing. The Dutch Passion 4 foot tall finished under one 600W HPS yielded 4 ounces. The African Seeds Durban Poison 4 foot tall yielded just over 8 ounces and was much more aromatic (fruity aniseed) and about twice as potent. Outdoors, when I transplant the African Seeds into a large pot (40 litres) for its final resting pot, it can yield up to 1lb before our Summer Equinox - and the resin is more activated due to the sun's more intense UVB rays at that time of the year.
So the secret/trick to regulating the stretch of the 100% sativas is not vegging them at all from seed, but more importantly, restricting their root system's growing volume from the beginning of stretch, till the end. After that, transplant them into as big a volume of soil as you wish and NO further stretching occurs - so long as they stay in flower. The larger the volume of soil that they have after their stretch has finished, the bigger the yield - not the stretch.
You will always get very little stretch from any strain that is allowed to veg for a good time in the same pot that flowering is induced under(weeks after vegging has occurred). The same applies to anyone who has ever tried to revegetate and flower an already finished plant in the SAME pot that its' first harvest was taken in. People should be aware that the only time real stretching can occur with cannabis, especially in pre-flower, is when a good volume of NEW/virgin soil is introduced or is allowed to surround the already WELL established root-ball. It is only then, that the plant can provide us with a sudden and spectacular 'final reach' upwards as flowering commences. This is why 'stretch factors' that are quoted by good growers and seed suppliers can only be had as such IF the plant is vegged in its' 2nd largest pot and then transplanted into its' largest pot 1-2 weeks PRIOR to initiating a 12/12 regime. As this gives the plant just enough time to grow into the soil and realize that there is plenty of NEW soil with which it can suddenly grow new roots to compliment its' final stretch. Also keeping in mind that MOST of these quoted stretch factors are 'true' when a plant of NOT cropped/clipped and has only one main shoot. The more the main shoots it has, the lesser the stretch factor 'provided' as it has to be dispersed into more than one main stem.
So this is why I outline that one do their LAST transplant into the plants largest/final pot AFTER all pre-flower stretching has occurred...as it has ALREADY been restricted by using a small pot during re-flower and 2-3 weeks after, for if it wasn't then instead of ending up between 3-5foot tall at most, it would've stretched to an easy 8 foot tall and much more(with Sativa IBLs and Landraces). So, it is this restriction of roots at just the right time that can be used to opposite effect to maximize the size and yield of lesser stretching plants like indicas and the like with MINIMAL vegging period. You'd be amazed how heavily internoded and yielding a 3-4 foot tall IBL sativa can become when grown using the method I outlined above that restricts stretching by root restriction of the right proportion. That way one NEED NOT veg the plant for a long time and trim back twice to then hopefully end up with a reasonably sized indoor sativa. The vegging period with an IBL/Landrace sativa with an UNCLIPPED main shoot can be effectively reduced to the minimal period required for the plant to show 'sex' when started under 10-11 hours day from sprout or a few days after sprouting under an 18hour light regime...which can trigger sexing in IBL's a little faster than had they been sprouted under a flowering photoperiod, but NOT with landrace sativas. The only thing that gets pure landrace sativas into flowering quicker lots of darkness and flowering fertilizers in the soil from day one. But not too much fertilizer as this can also increase hermaphrodite and male rates with landraces. It's all a balancing act that can be easier won with patience rather than eagerness.
So if you try the method I outlined above, it's success will lay in the TIMING of the last pot transplant into the largest/finishing pot. If you do it too early, the plant will go into a state of flowering-stretch/vegging-flowering and end up stretching excessively...as do landrace South East Asians when provided with lots of spare soil that the roots can continue growing in. They'll stretch to the moon if transplanted into a larger soil volume at anytime after vegging. Be they in pre-flower of flower they don't care...if they sense more soil, a stretching they will go. So to grow them successfully and restrain their height while still getting an excellent yield without clipping the main stem requires a COMPLETELY different strategy to the one I outlined for the Africanas (or most IBL sativas that are NOT landraces). I should also point out that most African strains available including those from African Seeds, are NOT true pure landrace sativas. They are more an IBL sativa heavily acclimatized to the region they came from, but where originally a blending/crossing of other pure sativas that where available long ago. This is why NONE of them have pre-flowering stretch factors in excess of 20 to 1...as does the DALAT Nam which can easily go 25 to 1 even in a 20 Litre pot. From a couple of inches tall to over 5 foot tall finished with 10/14 from day one and flowering commenced from the time the clone has set-root and been placed into the 20L odd pot. I had Shantis Nevilles Haze do me a 9 to 1 stretch that seem considerable, till I tried the Nam and other South East Asian landraces. They stretch so much that they need no vegging to become huge.
Edited by Lord Steppington
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good article , I never thought of limiting pot size till after stretch ... no vegging though ??

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Great article

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good article , I never thought of limiting pot size till after stretch ... no vegging though ??

Seems counter intuitive right? I first saw it in the Ace Seeds forum on ICMag - see the practise in action :)

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:D @@Happy Hippy again, you're welcome, wish I could credit the original author :D

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@@Lord Steppington

lol Thing is dude i love African sats and the sat effect,im so excited to be going to the Ganga fields soon in Ghana.. A.Farmer actually called me(friend of a friend) to introduce himself and tell me how happy he is to show me his family farm.and how i will be the 1st white man he knows of being allowed to go there,i can stay with him and his family as long as i want..i cant even tell you how excited i am knowing im going to smoke the best he can impress me with lol...it will be almost perfect timing for collecting seeds and seeing how they crop,and process all they grow....this time i plan to document everything..

peace

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@@Happy Hippy

Ah man, I know about your trip to Ghana from the travel forum :) and your generous gift of the seeds to the site. I am hoping that in 3/4 weeks when I have the money, I'll pay the sub fees and get your seeds :)

You're going to have an incredible time, wish I was joining you!

Have you ever been to Kampala?

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@@Lord Steppington

No dude..tbh there are many places id love to go but most of them are in civil unrest and itd be a little dangerous for me to go bowling about wanting to know where i can go in the mountains for real temple ball lol...I just feel there must be so much fantastic weed in Africa i need to go see for myself..

India,Pakistan Asia...so many places so little time..but as i have been blessed with finding my way in Africa with some great friends i will spend some time just making sure its all i need..

Yeah man get some seeds,anything that dont germ i will cover with seeds i bring back anyway...no risk and on Cannabiogens site they cost £30 quid for ten Ghana seeds...save yself a tenner by subbing..

peace

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@@Happy Hippy yourour going to have a great time. I will be looking forward to hearing just how much fun you have.

Enjoy.

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@@Happy Hippy yourour going to have a great time. I will be looking forward to hearing just how much fun you have.

Enjoy.

@sy

Thanks dude yeah i m so excited lol..shit loads of pics when i get back...going after this grow finishes and i can come back to my jars full of cured Smile lol if my daughter doesnt try to smoke it all that is hahaha

peace

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Hello people, let me add this about the HOW TO MANAGE SATIVAS INDOORS:

Everything in this quote should be under the title.

I read this somewhere online before and edited the typos as best as I can and figured you people who want to try growing pure Sativas would really enjoy.

The following is not my text. But I wish it was. I'm also not affiliated with any seed banks mentioned, etc. in this text.
As a matter of fact I've never to this day even grown an african landrace. Not even the Malawi Gold that lots of people
are going Gaga with right now.

Do know that I am currently working out something new to add using my own personal Sativa experiences and will create part #2.

Here's some of my new tips that will be added to how I do things later on.

Once I'm done creating my new tips I'll post it all together and post a link

in here.

For now here's some tidbits I'm currently playing with:

1. I only use T-12's, T-5's and MH to grow Sativas. Reason: HPS causes too much stretching.

2. I only vegetate with 14 hours of light.

3. I use no more than 15 hours of light to clone.

4. I start seedlings in 4" square pots and then transplant into 5" X 5" X 6" tall pots to finish them in.

If you want to grow in larger pots be careful and proceed very slowly unless your looking for trees.

5. I never use more than 15 hours and preferably only 14 hours to vegetate any pure Sativa.

People who use more are wasting their time and may get hermies or more problems.

This following post may help you understand this better.

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=151973&p=4597447

Edited by corky1968
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Thanks @@corky1968

Do know that I am currently working out something new to add using my own personal Sativa experiences and will create part #2.

YES!!! :D

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@@Lord Steppington

Get subbed when you can dude and get em...I did :D Great find, fair play, lots of info there :yep:

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