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Bob242

Root rot disease-how common is this infection RDWC DWC

35 posts in this topic

Just how common is fungal root rot disease in RDWC DWC? It looks quite common as many growers seem to be using all kinds of chemicals, teas... and fighting the outbreaks on a routine basis.

They say that strong chemicals like H2O2, Chlorine bases products and water chillers using cold nutrient solution will prevent it yet catching the rot is so common and all this prevention seems to fail so often.

If all this stuff is suppose to prevent it, then why do so many growers catch the root rot and then treat the disease.

What do you think really prevents this plant disease? Like small polio vaccine really prevents polio.

I have seen all kinds of concoctions, teas and goos recommended to treat the disease, I'm more interested in preventing the disease.

Thoughts, ideas, any one here really consistently successful at preventing root rot?

Thanks

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This is what puts me off any hydro. I'd love to give one of the systems a go, but without purchasing an expensive water chiller it seems a no go for me (I ready constantly that having water in the tank that sits above 22 degrees C more or less guarantees some sort of issue).

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I have read about many growers using water chillers, chill the nutrient water, keep the temp between 65F-68F. I also see many catching the root rot and jump immediately from the prevention mode to the disease treatment mode.

What was the point of chilling the water when you continue to catch the rot? I don't understand the point of the water chiller?

Then there are growers think chillers are to expensive and still have root rot outbreaks and again treatment is necessary after they bought a chiller for prevention. And the growers that want to biologically prevent root rot, that promote Hydroguard biologicals.

Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens is the organism... but this microorganism does not thrive in cold water - the optimum temperature for this organism to thrive is 86F - 104F. Clearly they like the water much warmer than 65F-68F the popular temperature range the chiller salesmen recommend.

This is very confusing to me.

Why do the chiller salesmen and promoters recommend such cold water when this cold water is so detrimental to beneficials?

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@@Bob242

Hi mate, I've been growing dwc for several years and never get root rot.

My res is insulated and I keep the nutrient temp within a degree or two of 20c and dose h2o2 a couple of times a week

I don't use a chiller just a couple of frozen bottles in there when needed, aquarium heater for the cold spells.

stu :oldtoker:

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Not enough oxygen, light leaks into the buckets and root zone, and bad hygiene are common causes.

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Surely you have actually tested the DO saturation and you know for a fact (not what a DO chart says it should be), right? So in your opinion and experience, what %DO Saturation is "Not enough oxygen?" And in your opinion, what %DO saturation is enough/good? Need your % DO Saturation numbers please.

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@@Bob242

Keep things simple mate, you don't need to go into DO saturation levels, the water gets hotter, the DO goes down and vice versa.

Keep the temps around 20c, move the water to oxygenate, add h2o2, thats all you need to worry about

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This sounds like the water chiller and chemical salesmen pitch, no offence intended man. OK, this is clear, you rely on a chart, cold water, moving cold water to insure safe oxygenation and hydrogen peroxide chemicals and your assume all this this will prevent any low oxygen events. Then you say don't worry every thing will be fine. Are you kidding? If that were true the root rot chemical makers and tea brewers would be out of business, no sales. May I assume that you have never actually really tested the DO with a meter.

Is there anyone on this board that has ever tested the DO Sat in a RDWC DWC grow throughout 1 growing season?

I am really seeking opinions from more technical advanced growers that have real experience testing DO sats in RDWC DWC nutrient solutions and root zone. The growers that excelled beyond "keeping it simple." The growers that know what %DO sat is 'low oxygenation' and what %DO sat is great oxygenation. This is definitely beyond simple, this is more high tech stuff. I would rather prevent "low oxygen" problems than be reactive and have to treat the root rot and good microbe problems that are directly associate with failure to oxygen.

Again, no offence intended man and I certainly appreciate your response, thanks.

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Stress is what makes the plant potentially vulnerable to root rot and other issues. Low DO and warm water temps create stress but so can a host of other things. A chiller and high levels of DO wont do much to help a bug infested plant ;)

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I'm going back to coco after this grow. Got the root rot again in a gully system. Managed to go without getting it until the res temps spiked and I didn't have enough airation. I think if you are solely on about preventing it then obviously start off with clean gear. Keep res temps low, plenty of movement and either H2O2 or beneficial bacteria. The 2 don't mix but aparantly hygrozyme can be used with H202.

The lower the res temps the less likely you are of getting it as the lower the temps the more oxygen it can hold, and pyhium cant (shouldn't) take hold in an oxygen rich solution.. But go too low and the roots won't like it. Also keep the res free of dead plant material (dropped leaves etc).

Start off right and keep at it religiously and you'll be right. Grower complacency is probably the biggest cause of root rot.

Trying to fix root rot once its set in is a different thing.. Its a f@#king bastard!

Edited by Chester Copperpot

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There is no greater stressor than "low Oxygen" a hypoxic event for both pot plant or animal aerobes. Hypoxia causes cellular failure and cell death, no different than how you and I will die. Most growers do not prevent root rot, they wait till they catch it, then they treated it with teas and chemicals... after the cellular damage is already done. It's always a race to put out the fire for the "firefighters." And fighting disease outbreaks is not cheap either. I am more interested in preventing fungal diseases vs. waiting for the disease and firefighting the disease. Healthy plant systems and healthy thriving biological eco system need a lot of oxygen, not a lot of air.

In your opinion, what %DO saturation is the threshold for fungal outbreaks? Just wondering where you believe "low oxygen" begins.

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I wouldn't know measurements to be honest. Got me thinking now. I mean like is it possible to run a higher than ideal res temp provided there's enough oxygen(?) I'm on the back foot with the root rot I've got. 4 plants under 2 400s. Lucky if I scrape enough to last til my next ones are even ready to flip :(

But, I should've known. Had it before.

Edited by Chester Copperpot

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Then the only other option is to prevent the root rot fungus from thriving. Don't feel alone because there are very few growers that choose to prevent the rot. The preventive growers never allow their RDWC DWC DO saturation from falling below 100% DO saturation. These high tech growers maintain DO supersaturations continuously @ 110% -120% DO supersaturation continuously to harvest. They believe that "low oxygen" events create opportunity for fungal outbreaks and they just don't let any "low oxygen" event happen. They prefer prevention vs, treatment too. The down time treating fungal root rot is simply a wasted time with sick plants and sick microbes.

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Actually the cause of fungal root rot is "low oxygen" events. Those "Low Oxygen" events are preventable. How about RDWC DWC in an air conditioned room, 78F-80F nutrient temp, 75F air temp, 110% DO Supersaturated nutrient/root zone continuous throughout the grow to harvest? The high tech growers that choose this type root rot prevent apply Henry's Law, to insure high DO Supersaturation continuous. They do not chill the water nor do they use air pumps and air bubblers... they use oxygen enrichment >24% oxygen and increase the partial pressure of the oxygen > than 1 ATM (14.7 psi), maybe an additional 2-3 psi to 17-18 psi.

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im another of the simple ones who has never had any root rot in my rdwc.

I have hi DO levels, due to usinj a 80l hr air pump ( 2 airstones per 84 litre tote) and spray bars from a 5000l/hr water pump, both of these which serve 4 tote (84 litre) system plus an 84 litre res, which has 1 airstone.

Ive never measured the DO, because

1) the price of proper DO meters is bloody astroniomical and

2) why would i need to, my system works, thats all i need to know.

I have a chiller, but it isnt used at the minute, my reserviours are outside the tents, and i have to heat them with an aquarium heater, set to 19 dejrees.

My top tips are , insulate the totes and res, and keep an eye on the res temps.. Oh and run bleached water throujh the system between runs, before rinsinj fresh water throujh and draininj and refillinj with fresh nutrient solution

Why complicate matters?

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