Welcome to UK420

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more!

This message will be removed once you have signed in.


Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
lez

just had mri results for my neck

21 posts in this topic

hi all, just had my scan results of my neck, I already have l4/l5 l5/s1 disc dehydration and bulging diagnosed 10+ years ago and daily suffer sciatica went to the docs as I was getting shoulder and arm problems and was sent for an mri, so am I totally screwed now, doc said for me to see spinal specialist but said there was probably nothing he would do? he offered me gabapentin for the nerve pain but I refused, I take 1 10mg morphine slow release in the morn and 1 at night he told me I could take more if required,what I tend to do is smoke my meds till I'm comfortably numb and alwayswithout fail have to go to bed cos of being in pain and uncomfortable at about 10.30pm (done this for years now)

mri cervical spine. Alignment is maintained.there is reduced t2 signal indicating disc dehydration at multiple c levels with minimal disc height reduction at c4/5. there are disc osteophyte bars at several levels. these are abutting the left side of the cord at c4/5 and the right at c5/6, although there is still a small volume of cfs preserved posterior to the cord at both levels and no cord flattening or distortion. There is likely however to be nerve root inpingment within the lateral recesses at both levels, although the exit foramina remain reasonably capacious at both levels.

there is also a smaller left paracentral disc osteophyte bar at c6/7, again slightly encroachingupon the lateral recesses but not causing any major foraminal narrowing. The canal remains capacious but there is slight prominence of the central canal at this level, the central canal however appears of normal calibre at the mid c6 and mid c7 levels and I doubt this appearance is of any clinical relevence. signal in the remainder of cervical and upper dorsal cord down to t4/5 is normal. the cranio-cervical junction is unremarkable and there is no evidence of any sinister marrow pathology in the cervical or upper dorsal vertibral bodies.

Edited by lez

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Lez, sorry to hear of your pain mate.

I too am a sciatica sufferer but fortunately for me, mine has always been lower back with pins and needles and dull aches running down my butt cheek and back of my leg. 7 years ago I had partial disc removal which certainly cured the problem initially but about 3 years down the line the pains starting returning and I have since found out that it's all down to my seating posture. I have found that smoking weed certainly does dull the pain.

Wish you all the best with your on going issues.

Take care

Astro :smokin:

Share this post


Link to post

there are disc osteophyte bars at several levels. these are abutting the left side of the cord at c4/5 and the right at c5/6, although there is still a small volume of cfs preserved posterior to the cord at both levels and no cord flattening or distortion. There is likely however to be nerve root inpingment within the lateral recesses at both levels, although the exit foramina remain reasonably capacious at both levels.

I can't for the life of me work out what cfs refers to.

I understand the rest of it. Not sure if you have put it up here to let us know or to get some feedback :)

e2add - the only thing I think it can be is cerebro-spinal fluid and the letters have been transposed :)

Just seen your sub-title in the heading

There is nothing on the mri that they can see that they could operate on to give you benefit.

Will go back, put up your post and translate each bit - see you in part two :)

Edited by Thicky
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

mri cervical spine. Alignment is maintained.there is reduced t2 signal indicating disc dehydration at multiple c levels with minimal disc height reduction at c4/5.

They are basically saying that a lot of the discs in the neck appear to have some dehydration which means the vertebrae are closer together and this can impede ranges of motion and also cause pain through structures pressing onto nerves where they exit the spinal column.

there are disc osteophyte bars at several levels. these are abutting the left side of the cord at c4/5 and the right at c5/6, although there is still a small volume of cfs preserved posterior to the cord at both levels and no cord flattening or distortion. There is likely however to be nerve root inpingment within the lateral recesses at both levels, although the exit foramina remain reasonably capacious at both levels.

"osteophyte bars tend to grow from the edges of vertebral bodies where the discs attach When combined with a degenerative intervertebral disc they are known as disc osteophyte bars. They can compress both the spinal cord and nerve roots, causing sciatica and brachialgia."

brachialgia is what you are getting in your shoulders and arm. In the above part of the report they are saying that between C5 and C6 (just above where the neck C7 meets the ribcage T1) and also between C4 and C5 (so basically the lower part of your neck) there are osteophyte bars which are encroaching into the central canal that the spinal cord travels through - one into the left side of the canal at level C4/5 and on the right at level C5/6. The report is saying that at these points you are likely to be suffereng from pain caused by nerve impingement.

there is also a smaller left paracentral disc osteophyte bar at c6/7, again slightly encroaching upon the lateral recesses but not causing any major foraminal narrowing. The canal remains capacious but there is slight prominence of the central canal at this level, the central canal however appears of normal calibre at the mid c6 and mid c7 levels and I doubt this appearance is of any clinical relevence. signal in the remainder of cervical and upper dorsal cord down to t4/5 is normal. the cranio-cervical junction is unremarkable and there is no evidence of any sinister marrow pathology in the cervical or upper dorsal vertibral bodies.

This last paragraph is saying you also have a disc osteophyte bar on the left hand side of the C6/7 junction but it does not appear to have any clinical significance - in other words they don't think it is causing any of the pain you are experiencing.

Surgery is never a great option, the body's mechanics are hugely complex and intricately balanced.

The only remedy you have is to explore different physical movements and exercise options to keep the whole upper body as mobile and flexible as possible and that has to be investigated by you, your mechanics are unique.

The worst thing is to do any one thing for a long time without a break and this becomes a crucial dynamic when the body's balance has been compromised to your extent. If you mainly sit you need to get up every 20 minutes and free your body raise your arms stretch put some music on and dance - anything that suits your structure and leaves you feeling freer and refreshed is what you do.

Try doing simple arm movements which take the shoulder joint through its full range of motion and discard any that hurt in an unpleasant way. By doing movements that take the joints through their full range you open up and rehabilitate the areas and once they are fully functioning mechanically, it has a knock on effect into the structures closer to the spine and pain and discomfort are diminished purely through better mechanical functioning.

The key is to do movements and exercises daily and to keep to the 20 minutes change your position rule. It takes less than 30 seconds to restore the structure to a more neutral and beneficial condition - 30 seconds every 20 minutes produces a noticeable benefit and it increases as time goes on.

Hope this helps :)

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

mri cervical spine. Alignment is maintained.there is reduced t2 signal indicating disc dehydration at multiple c levels with minimal disc height reduction at c4/5.

They are basically saying that a lot of the discs in the neck appear to have some dehydration which means the vertebrae are closer together and this can impede ranges of motion and also cause pain through structures pressing onto nerves where they exit the spinal column.

there are disc osteophyte bars at several levels. these are abutting the left side of the cord at c4/5 and the right at c5/6, although there is still a small volume of cfs preserved posterior to the cord at both levels and no cord flattening or distortion. There is likely however to be nerve root inpingment within the lateral recesses at both levels, although the exit foramina remain reasonably capacious at both levels.

"osteophyte bars tend to grow from the edges of vertebral bodies where the discs attach When combined with a degenerative intervertebral disc they are known as disc osteophyte bars. They can compress both the spinal cord and nerve roots, causing sciatica and brachialgia."

brachialgia is what you are getting in your shoulders and arm. In the above part of the report they are saying that between C5 and C6 (just above where the neck C7 meets the ribcage T1) and also between C4 and C5 (so basically the lower part of your neck) there are osteophyte bars which are encroaching into the central canal that the spinal cord travels through - one into the left side of the canal at level C4/5 and on the right at level C5/6. The report is saying that at these points you are likely to be suffereng from pain caused by nerve impingement.

there is also a smaller left paracentral disc osteophyte bar at c6/7, again slightly encroaching upon the lateral recesses but not causing any major foraminal narrowing. The canal remains capacious but there is slight prominence of the central canal at this level, the central canal however appears of normal calibre at the mid c6 and mid c7 levels and I doubt this appearance is of any clinical relevence. signal in the remainder of cervical and upper dorsal cord down to t4/5 is normal. the cranio-cervical junction is unremarkable and there is no evidence of any sinister marrow pathology in the cervical or upper dorsal vertibral bodies.

This last paragraph is saying you also have a disc osteophyte bar on the left hand side of the C6/7 junction but it does not appear to have any clinical significance - in other words they don't think it is causing any of the pain you are experiencing.

Surgery is never a great option, the body's mechanics are hugely complex and intricately balanced.

The only remedy you have is to explore different physical movements and exercise options to keep the whole upper body as mobile and flexible as possible and that has to be investigated by you, your mechanics are unique.

The worst thing is to do any one thing for a long time without a break and this becomes a crucial dynamic when the body's balance has been compromised to your extent. If you mainly sit you need to get up every 20 minutes and free your body raise your arms stretch put some music on and dance - anything that suits your structure and leaves you feeling freer and refreshed is what you do.

Try doing simple arm movements which take the shoulder joint through its full range of motion and discard any that hurt in an unpleasant way. By doing movements that take the joints through their full range you open up and rehabilitate the areas and once they are fully functioning mechanically, it has a knock on effect into the structures closer to the spine and pain and discomfort are diminished purely through better mechanical functioning.

The key is to do movements and exercises daily and to keep to the 20 minutes change your position rule. It takes less than 30 seconds to restore the structure to a more neutral and beneficial condition - 30 seconds every 20 minutes produces a noticeable benefit and it increases as time goes on.

Hope this helps :)

I'd give you rep but I am unable to confirm or deny the veracity of the information provided ( i feel faint when I think of blood and bones and stuff and I'm dumb), however I know it's nice of you to explain things simply and with less jargon so you get a bonus :hug: for being nice to a fellow uk420'er along with Lez's :hug: for not nice news. sorry I'm a usless bag of bones :sorry:

Edited by The Black Sheep

Share this post


Link to post

sorry I'm a usless bag of bones :sorry:

Black Sheep you big silly :):hug:

I love your Hopi quote :yep:

Share this post


Link to post
:hug: Thank you mrs T, I have looked for ages on the net for any info but have failed, what concerned me was the bit of spinal cord being touched, (i had to find out what abutted meant first) so are they going to grow and squash my cord eventually and I also wonder how long they have been like it, Ive had 2 accidents and since the first in 1997 I've have had nerve problems, but mainly lower back and legs, very occasionaly up to mid and upper back/neck... recently I had a car crash and phisio which seemed to kick off the shoulder and arm problems which since having bowen therapy has got much better, expensive but worthwhile,.. again it makes a bit more sence now so thanks. :hug: for tbs as well Edited by lez

Share this post


Link to post

I've got six spinal breaks and have had and overheard many conversations with doctors, spinal specialists, and I wouldn't dare advise you. Speak to a specialist and NOT your GP, it's your spinal column, demand a professional explanation of the situation.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

I've got six spinal breaks and have had and overheard many conversations with doctors, spinal specialists, and I wouldn't dare advise you. Speak to a specialist and NOT your GP, it's your spinal column, demand a professional explanation of the situation.

As someone with spinal issues, I would just like to underline Hir's words - excellent advice, and you should follow it.

My own problem is acute wear and tear damage, with stenosis at every level. This results in similar pains to yours, sciatica, brachalgia and the rest. I find that neck, head and face pains are the worst, but thankfully also the rarest.

Your fellow who advised upping the Morphine was right, 10 mg is very minimal. I used to take 90 or 120 mg of slow release Morphine morning and night, with 50mg top-up pills for breakthrough pain. This made me very drowsy during the daytime, so we switched to Oxycontin, with Morphine for breakthrough pain. Some day I take quite a lot of Morphine, its such a jolly good pain control drug. Folks worry about addiction, but I don't. A minor habit beats the shit out of living with uncontrolled pain day and night. If I would offer you one word of advise it would be that you have a natter with an anaesthetist about using Morphine. I had a long old convo with the one at my last hospital stay, and he gave me some of the best and most helpful advice I've ever had. Thanks to him, I now feel I have some measure of control over my pain levels.

Surgery. The dreaded "S" word. I've had my spinal foramins drilled out at several levels (cervical and lumber) with associated bone-spur removals. The lumber surgery went reasonably well, and gave me some measure of relief for a few years. The cervical surgery was less useful, doing little more than adding further pains to the ones already there. Thankfully this has not settled down, but only just. However, my last spinal op was over ten years ago now, and no doubt things have changed and probably gotten better.

But like Hir said, get a proper explanation; if they don't satisfy you, go see someone else until you do get satisfaction. IME, asking the consultant surgeon is the best way. And every time they sue words you do not understand, stop them and say so. Over and again, until you are satisfied. After all, it is your spine.

I am really hoping you get some relief soon. Long term chronic conditions are a bugger.

:lucky:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

:hug: Thank you mrs T, I have looked for ages on the net for any info but have failed, what concerned me was the bit of spinal cord being touched, (i had to find out what abutted meant first) so are they going to grow and squash my cord eventually and I also wonder how long they have been like it, Ive had 2 accidents and since the first in 1997 I've have had nerve problems, but mainly lower back and legs, very occasionaly up to mid and upper back/neck... recently I had a car crash and phisio which seemed to kick off the shoulder and arm problems which since having bowen therapy has got much better, expensive but worthwhile,.. again it makes a bit more sence now so thanks. :hug: for tbs as well

Bowen therapy has very good results with traumatic injury. Good choice for a longer term resolution. :thumsup:

Share this post


Link to post

:hug: Thank you mrs T, I have looked for ages on the net for any info but have failed, what concerned me was the bit of spinal cord being touched, (i had to find out what abutted meant first) so are they going to grow and squash my cord eventually and I also wonder how long they have been like it, Ive had 2 accidents and since the first in 1997 I've have had nerve problems, but mainly lower back and legs, very occasionaly up to mid and upper back/neck... recently I had a car crash and phisio which seemed to kick off the shoulder and arm problems which since having bowen therapy has got much better, expensive but worthwhile,.. again it makes a bit more sence now so thanks. :hug: for tbs as well

Bowen therapy has very good results with traumatic injury. Good choice for a longer term resolution. :thumsup:

Yes I agree with this as after my phisio had finished with me after the 3rd session of gentle manipulation I was left in casualty with my left hand,2 fingers and thumb my shoulder and arm being in serious pain and no longer working properly, thankfully in the weeks before the scan the bowen has sorted it or maybe it was time so that only my pointing finger is unable to be used which was why the hospital booked me for a scan in the first place, I dont understand bowen at all but in my experiance it definately does make you stand taller following a session and totally totally spaced out..I am still at a loss of if these bones touching my cord are danerous in any way or am I just being a jessie, I suppose arnie with all your problems you are living proof that its not that bad.

Share this post


Link to post

it was a chiro manipulating my spine that made things really bad for me, after an mri i was told by my surgeon that spinal manipulation was a bad thing for my condition, however after 6 years at the mercy of the NHS i have had enough and visited a different chiro to get my neck sorted out(its my lumbar region that has all the problems according to the mri scans) half an hour of deep tissue massage on my neck and shoulders has made a huge difference (although i have lots of localised soreness and pain) , back tomorrow to see him again , he has reccomended trying the alexander technique, im desperate enough to try anything at this stage so its fingers crossed, although the 1/2 hour massage he did has given me more mobility and relief than the last 6 years of NHS butchery!

Share this post


Link to post

The osteophytes may or may not increase in size - there is no telling how long you have had them and I certainly wouldn't worry at this stage.

I rarely hear good reports of NHS physios but those in private practice seem to have a better reputation.

The Bowen therapy should produce results and you may find over a period of time the treatment produces a diminishing of the pain levels you experience and also the nerve dysfunction.

The less you rely on the use of pain killers the better from a purely mechanical/chemical-function point of view. :yep:

Share this post


Link to post

The osteophytes may or may not increase in size - there is no telling how long you have had them and I certainly wouldn't worry at this stage.

I rarely hear good reports of NHS physios but those in private practice seem to have a better reputation.

The Bowen therapy should produce results and you may find over a period of time the treatment produces a diminishing of the pain levels you experience and also the nerve dysfunction.

The less you rely on the use of pain killers the better from a purely mechanical/chemical-function point of view. :yep:

Hi Mrs T,

I asked how loong the osteophytes had been there and the specialist said over 10 years.. He didnt examine me at all, just looked at my scan, and he talked me through the findings, he said that there 3 areas of degradation in my neck as he only had my recent medical history (3 pages in a new folder), so I had done a letter with all my problems on so he could get a clear overall picture medical procedures and meds, he read it and I think disregarded it, he said,l as I have showed an improvement I am not yet a candidate for surgery, he also said the physical problem with regard to losing control of my left arm should be in my right arm anybody got any idea why, he didn't seem to know and I felt a bit of a fraud as I wasn't conventional and conforming to medical standards, I can tell you it's very real to me and I dont understand why he isnt doing further tests. as he said there may be something else causing the problems. He also whist running segment by segment on the scan told me I have damage to my spinal cord, I could see the cord and the inner part was lighter than the outside, I asked why the damage was there and he said it looks to have been crushed when asked "what by" he said he didnt know "maybe a bone has hit it" ??????????? it was left at that as I was a bit in shock to hear about damage to my cord. when I got home I started to cover the consultation in detail with my partner who was with me and only then did a huge amount of questions arise. I drafted a letter to my doctor and the contents are as follows, If anyone would like to comment please do as I dont know where to go from here, my doctor has requested me to see him on the 7th march, nearly 3 weeks away... should or could something be done now as I'm quite worried.

Dear Doctor,

Thank you for your referral to see the spinal expert in Swansea. He looked at my scans and explained the findings to me. I had written a letter outlining my existing lower back problems and associated symptoms, my medical history, neurological problems, medication and then on to the neck problems and associated symptoms to help him get a full overview of my case.

During the consultation he said I was having symptoms in the opposit arm that I should be having them in, and that the problem may lie elsewhere, as I should be having the symptoms in my right arm? He couldn't say why this is the case. I feel I must remind you that I had these problems before the scan was done and had attended surgery and A&E regarding them prior. He said the scan showed that there were 3 degenerated levels in my neck, and he told me that due to the fact that the arm has improved a little, he doesn't consider that I am a candidate for surgery as yet, I did explain that I am not doing anything at the moment as it aggravates the situation as my lower back problem still does when I overdo it. However,he did say if the arm does get worse, (which it has done on 2 occasions in the last 6 months), I am to be referred back to him. He also said that in his opinion my body is doing this to itself as it must be in my Dna to have this level of degeneration now, rather than in my sixties, I did say in my overview letter that there are no other members of my family who suffer with back problems. I stated to him the problems with my lower back started following a falling accident on on a ship in 1997 and then in my neck following a rear end accident 2 years or so ago, which pushed me into the car in front, Myself, I find it to be too much of a coincidence. He also said the osteophytes have been there a long time which could run into 10 years +. In my view, this would correlate with my body trying to compensate for the damage caused in 1997 to my lower back, but I am no expert in these matters and can only reitterate that the problems I have both started following a traumatic accident.

Whilst looking through the scan and explaining the findings to me, he noticed a damaged area in my spinal cord, this is something that was not on the scan results which I was given initially, and he said that it would be permanently damaged as it looked as if it had been compressed somehow, but he couldnt speculate on how, maybe it was crushed by a bone he said ??

I would request your help regarding this matter as I do not wish to waste another surgeons valuable time but feel a second opinion is warrented by a neurologist, I took on board what the spinal expert said, but obviously now have further questions which I did not ask during my consultation.

Please could you get my scans inspected by a specialist in neurology to check the damage to my spinal cord and determine if it could be the reason for the problems I have in my spine.

Would a scan of the rest of my spine be warrented as I do have pain in my back mid way up which makes me wonder if there is damage further up midway, also it would show if the problem has degenerated further in my lower back at other levels and would confirm if it is my own Dna doing this as the spinal expert said? and in the light of no other family member having back problems, naturally one would think that it could be caused by some other process such as an autoimmune disease.

What has caused the spinal cord to be damaged? Was it caused by the road traffic accident or the original accident I had in 1997?

I had a scan in 1997-8 of my neck/lower back which only showed the degeneration at L4/5 L5/S1. Did it show the affected levels in my neck if so could these be looked at to see if there was degeneration or damage to the cord at that time.

Will it get worse? If so, is there anything I can do to stop it getting worse?

Why do my symptoms appear in my left rather than my right arm.? am I wired the other way round, as everyone is different?

I was rather shocked and now quite worried to hear the spinal experts findings regarding the damage to my spinal cord, and feel that I must make you aware that I have had private physiotherapy treatment which really aggravated the situation a great deal whilst having treatment, it was so bad I had to go to A&E with the arm/neck problems. They then slowly subsided after a few weeks when the course was finished, but I have had them flre up again recently which is when I came to yourself, again got worse then better.

I believe that Physiotherapy has had a detrimental effect on my situation and do not want to go through it again. I would however like to be re-referred to pain clinic if possible.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry to hear you are in such a tough spot Lez.

It might prove impossible to prove which events caused which problems and the information that the consultant gave you was not only unhelpful but I imagine very discouraging too.

If there were no sign of cord damage it would be easy to look and see if you were using a compensatory position to relieve the neck area and that it was causing compression on the nerve that is related to the arm you are registering the pain in.

However, you definitely should push for another consultation and instead of taking a letter with you, write a numbered list of the most important points you want to have answered. It is easier for the Dr to look at it and for you to reference each point and get a clear definition.

I hope you can get some clear answers and effective help soon. :)

Edited by Thicky

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0