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troy

science vs religion

1,123 posts in this topic
4 hours ago, bazzad9 said:

i have no idea what "spirit" refers to,can you define it for me ?

um  you an i talkimg is sprits comunicating were not meat an bones talking ,, the essence of life ,,the very thing that drove you to ask that question,,it its your consuoisness anything and everything you feel think above eating shitting an reproducing  im problaby the wrong person to ask btw  as i belive in a spirit church and a i belive isreal is a spiritual land  lol i mean if you leave your body  and look  down at your pysichal body for example the concept is  as real and easy to understand as anything physical its like i said  we can only believe whats proven to us  if you see no evidence of spirit cant see why  you or anyone would  think it exists 

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Just now, harvestreaper said:

um  you an i talkimg is sprits comunicating were not meat an bones talking ,, the essence of life ,,the very thing that drove you to ask that question,,it its your consuoisness anything and everything you feel think above eating shitting an reproducing  im problaby the wrong person to ask btw  as i belive in a spirit church and a i belive isreal is a spiritual land  lol i mean if you leave your body  and look  down at your pysichal body for example the concept is  as real and easy to understand as anything physical its like i said  we can only believe whats proven to us  if you see no evidence of spirit cant see why  you or anyone would  think it exists 

so you dont have a definition either then 

 

its certainly meat and bones talking the mechanical function the words come from the brain again meat inserting some magical spirit serves no purpose especially if this magical spirit covers anything and everything its as bad as saying god did it

 

i think in most cases where the word "spirit" is used the word "brain" would be better served

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i didnt say magic you did i believe in spirit you dont i also belive in god i also belive truth is holy as it cant be tarnished moved a mm by man in any way shape or form  like i say im probly not best person to ask lol as for definining spirit id have to think some more on it i thought id pretty much explained my view i certainly aint trying to convince anyone  as you can only  really belive whats proven to you yourself

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1 hour ago, harvestreaper said:

i didnt say magic you did i believe in spirit you dont i also belive in god i also belive truth is holy as it cant be tarnished moved a mm by man in any way shape or form  like i say im probly not best person to ask lol as for definining spirit id have to think some more on it i thought id pretty much explained my view i certainly aint trying to convince anyone  as you can only  really belive whats proven to you yourself

i said its akin to saying magic

 

i agree the truth is the truth regardless of opinion 

 

the trouble with god is it all comes from man either organised religion guided by man or the opposing version of having your own version of god which aligns perfectly with your own views so essentially coming from the man saying it 

 

theres no god out there on its own merit ,nothing we can point to etc its all words of man 

 

im not accusing you of trying to convince me or anyone im asking you these questions so your not pushing anything on me im inviting it 

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15 minutes ago, bazzad9 said:

i said its akin to saying magic

 

i agree the truth is the truth regardless of opinion 

 

the trouble with god is it all comes from man either organised religion guided by man or the opposing version of having your own version of god which aligns perfectly with your own views so essentially coming from the man saying it 

 

theres no god out there on its own merit ,nothing we can point to etc its all words of man 

 

im not accusing you of trying to convince me or anyone im asking you these questions so your not pushing anything on me im inviting it 

well its an interesting area i dont belive in religion i beilive all physical churches are fake and the only true church is truth itself a spirit church open 24 hours a day to every man woman and child on earth no locks on the door , no money can change hands and you can only enter of your own free will this is my view but only my own i can only belive in truth an truth can be proven thats the beauty of it i mean  you could say  god is humanity or the consuisness of humanity so many semantics and  ways to define things an im not an educated man but i hope you can understand me ,,there is no my version with truth its same for all again more of its beauty truth dont care what you or i want/ wish life to be it is what it is ,,take or leave,, it aint going nowere but then truth is also reality so when you turn from reality well you know where that leads its interesting for sure 

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23 minutes ago, harvestreaper said:

well its an interesting area i dont belive in religion i beilive all physical churches are fake and the only true church is truth itself a spirit church open 24 hours a day to every man woman and child on earth no locks on the door , no money can change hands and you can only enter of your own free will this is my view but only my own

 

This type of personal connection to "god" is in my opinion perfect. Each to their own personal belief and freedom to follow it as they see fit. No projection onto others. Even as an atheist I would fight for peoples rights to freedom of religion. If everyone could just see it that way I think there would be less issues with personal religion. 

 

Cheers tico. 

Edited by tico cervantes
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2 minutes ago, tico cervantes said:

 

This type of personal connection to "god" is in my opinion perfect. Each to their own personal belief and freedom to follow it as they see fit. No projection onto others. Even as an atheist I would fight for peoples rights to freedom of religion. If everyone could just see it that way I think there would be less issues with personal religion. 

 

Cheers tico. 

agree fully with this

 

i do find it interesting that the personal god and its rights and wrongs  usually align with the persons rights and wrongs exactly ,its almost like you do the thinking then assign the hard work to something else rather than take the credit yourself

 

not throwing shade on it just an observation ,if i did have an objection to it it would be that i wished people would take credit for there ideas and not  give it to a god 

 

but if that was all religion was as described above then the world would be better for it 

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On 01/05/2011 at 5:37 PM, redtilidie said:

I totally agree with you there mucka.

Religion to me is a farce whereas science has brought us some great inventions but at the same time some evil and devastating inventions.

 

This is a superficial reading of Religion in my view. Not that you aren't entitled to your own perspective, just thought I would share mine, even if no one asked!  Religion is clearly innate to us as a species and likely began as semi-mystical experiences when we were still primates unrecognisable to the modern day human, such as we see in Chimps today:

 

 

 

 If we take a Jungian perspective Religious dieties are sacred archetypes. In different races and geographic areas these differ wildly, from the Archetype of the Buddha in East Asia, the monotheistic Gods of the Middle east, the Pagan dieties of the Indo-Europeans and Persians. The Archetype that a people hold sacred is one of the ideal, the uberman, so in freezing hellscapes in Germania and Denmark these were the Archetypes of Wotan and Thor, masculine strong warrior Gods, full of wisdom and justice, but with the ever present threat of outbursts of estatic violence.

 

 However if we go to hotter climates, with less scarcity, less need for tribal violence and more dense urban centres, we see the abandonment of Paganism based on blood ties and kin-specific religious identities to all encompassing universalist monotheistic religions like Judaism, Islam and Christianity and their offshoots. Essentially we are the Gods, they are idealised versions of ourselves and our ancestors and when we suplicate to them and perforrm rememberance for them and the people before us who worshipped them, we bring them to life.

 

 This is a pretty smart evolutionary tool, because adherence to mystical higher non-materialist ideals is evolutionarily advantageous, the Tribe or peoples who are most willing to kill and die and suffer for their people are the ones who win the competition for resources, pass on their genes and win the game of continuation. Religion currently lies dormant in the subconscious of the western man. But when things kick off there it will be interesting to see how those archetypes re-emerge and solidify. There will never be no religion because Religion is an evolutionary tool and those who don't identify with a faith will be completely outbred by those who do and the non-religious will simply dissapear.

 

 This is why the only places religion fades is in prosperous, safe nations where the need for it has left because in group preference isn't needed, or when it is supressed and its followers subjugated. However as we have seen with the reemergence of the Orthodox in Ethiopia and the former USSR, or the Muslims in China, once they are free to practise again or strong enough to rebel and kill those suppressing them they will.

 

And look at the modern secular man devoid of religion. No identity, addicted to meaningless consumption, only concerned with materialist thought and nihilistic transgression. Sports are his outlet to escape his lack of identity, he gets his community online and he often never has a family of his own. Now look at Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. I know which society sounds more fullfilling to me. Its the poor ones who still have religious identity. Not the one where we are all too smart for religion and the leading cause of death for young men is suicide and overdoses.

 

 

Sorry for the long boring post guys, I just find this topic fascinating, not saying I have all the answers, I can barely remember the questions.

Edited by Thor420

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42 minutes ago, tico cervantes said:

 

This type of personal connection to "god" is in my opinion perfect. Each to their own personal belief and freedom to follow it as they see fit. No projection onto others. Even as an atheist I would fight for peoples rights to freedom of religion. If everyone could just see it that way I think there would be less issues with personal religion. 

 

Cheers tico. 

 

This was the absolute norm before Judiasm. Monotheism was the plague Nietzsche saw it for. Alas had Rome crushed Jehovah, we could have escaped this single minded literalism and law of monotheism and remained Pagans. I love the stories of the early European adoptees of Christianity wearing crosses upside down to get double protection from Thor and Jesus.

Edited by Thor420

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23 hours ago, bazzad9 said:

never claimed that 

 

i have learning difficulties and i have dyslexia with numbers (cant think of the name)but my reading is fine and fast always has been 

 

Hi mate, when you say learning difficulties, do you mean a learning disability or difficulty learning?

 

Ps Hope your'e well.. 

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Just now, theokoles said:

 

Hi mate, when you say learning difficulties, do you mean a learning disability or difficulty learning?

 

Ps Hope your'e well.. 

if i had to put it simply i find it hard to learn in the traditional way i have to find my own way ,ive never been officially diagnosed but im on the autism spectrum for sure and have been diagnosed with  dyscalculia  which is dyslexia with numbers and other things 

 

it wasnt untill my niece was diagnosed with autism or rather being on the spectrum that it became apparent both me and my dad are (where in his case)

 

for example a simple recipe i would struggle to follow but if i watched you make most of the recipe once i could piece it together myself and make it 

 

im very well thanks and hope you are to 

 

 

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Hope you didnt mind me asking.. I'm great thanks mate.

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58 minutes ago, bazzad9 said:

if i had to put it simply i find it hard to learn in the traditional way i have to find my own way ,ive never been officially diagnosed but im on the autism spectrum for sure and have been diagnosed with  dyscalculia  which is dyslexia with numbers and other things 

 

it wasnt untill my niece was diagnosed with autism or rather being on the spectrum that it became apparent both me and my dad are (where in his case)

 

for example a simple recipe i would struggle to follow but if i watched you make most of the recipe once i could piece it together myself and make it 

 

im very well thanks and hope you are to 

 

 

 

@bazzad9 I hope you don't mind me asking but is Dyslexia a product of the brain moving to fast for the body to process or a visual mixing up of the symbols? When I am typing I will often put letters in the wrong order in the exact same way. For example Hte instead of The or thouhgt instead of thought. It doesn't happen when I write only when I type and only for very specific words. I know at least one distant relative of mine has it.

Edited by Thor420

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Just now, Thor420 said:

 

@bazzad9 I hope you don't mind me asking but is Dyslexia a product of the brain moving to fast for the body to process or a visual mixing up of the symbols? When I am typing I will often put letters in the wrong order in the exact same way. For example Hte instead of The or thouhgt instead of thought. It doesn't happen when I write only when I type and only for very specific words. I know at least one distant relative of mine has it.

i only really have it with numbers although i do jumble letters up in words 

 

but with numbers say im doing a sum and you break it down into bits to make it easier ,i get the first bit ive broken down and often have the answer for that bit but then i get confused as to where i am in the sum which makes me then forget the answer to the bit i just solved then i lose what i was trying to solve in the first place ,the other thing i get is i cant look at say 3  bottles on a wall and see theres 3 i have to go down the line and count them for whatever reason my brain doesnt process it so i have to count and when you get up to 5 things or more i get confused as to where i am in the line whilst counting ,im told this is common though

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dyslexia with numbers is called discalculia, my mates teenage son has it and adhd quite severely, he’s smart lad in other senses but it’s quite a hard thing to get round with money ect.

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