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troy

science vs religion

1,123 posts in this topic

@@SquidInk It doesn't need quotes or references, if the shoe fits lol

I want a reference or quote where god like Josef or Allah has been proved mathematically lol

We won't find one :P we're never going to get to a stage where we disprove Allah and prove Shiva...at one time these 2 were one and the same. They still are its just now that the water is that muddy we have several gods with several names and several ways to "praise" them.

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Just seen this

Even if somebody came up with a mathematical proof that seemed to show that God existed, it would remain in the theoretical world and could not be shown to be true in reality because it would rest on unproven axioms.

I think then even if we did manage to prove god through maths in the end thats all we could do. God isn't going to show up after we've cracked the equation. We would still be like the ant trying to figure out the glass on top of it.

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god is humanity :shock:

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and humanity is god himself

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Some very open minds in this thread, great stuff :)

I don't use the term 'god' I say 'the universe' as in my view the universe is everything and we are but a fragment of the material dimensions and those dimensions are evolving living organisms constantly flowing and changing through space time but that's not the entirety of the universe's dimensions, for there's much, much more :yep:

This is my belief and connot be proved, but I 'know' and that's the key, all must find their own 'knowing' and some 'see' more than others in life, this does not make them inadequate or anything, on the contrary but it does mean more learning to do before the next ascension, many times 'our' energy goes around and around and never in the same form, who knows what other realms and dimensions that are above and below this 'layer' ...but how fascinating this 'living is in reality and how exciting the prospects of a different 'living' ...yinyang:

Spent most of my life depressed and anxious and not knowing why meant I've continuosly chased my tail...lately I'm actually realising why and how profound the discoveries you make as a result of that journey :yes:

Edited by botanics
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As human beings we are obsessed with having to explain everying verbally, it is natural to us. To put spiritual truths into words is impossible, spiritual ideas and beliefs are far too abstract to be described in mundane earthly terms.

Real spiritual truths can only be properly understood by a personal experience of them. When we try to put such spiritual experiences into words that are invented by humans they begin to lose their true meaning because different cultures and different people will have different ways of putting their ideas across.

I believe that if we were to take the doctrination of any particular world religion and 'distill' out its essence by removing any cultural, social of political byass then the essential spiritual essence we are left with would be the truth.

This essence can never be properly described in words, it has to be approached through contemplation, prayer and meditation. By using the intuitive or sub conscious mind we can begin to look for these spiritual truths.

Instead of being defensive and rejecting the ideas of other cultures and religions, we need to accept each other as brothers and sisters and see what we can learn.

Edited by PsychedelicEric
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I'm sure we have a specific thread for sharing ted talks but I'm blown if I can find it.

Anyway I figured this was as good a place as any too share this particular one.

I know its quite old now so many may already have seen it. But I just discovered the ted talks app on my smart telly so you might see me posting alot if these over the coming weeks.

Apologies in advance! lol

Anyway I thought the guy made a lot of sense.

Cheers dodge

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@@Dodgee

The guy made absolute sense mate and is speaking from an enlightened viewpoint, but I think he's falling into a trap of his own making by thinking that 'control' is down to us as it isn't and ultimately we do not control the planet anymore than we control our own consciousness' . Meaning of course that physically and mentally (the dual reality he speaks of) are in a constant state of flux, we are part of the flux not the causation, it's inevitable and fundamentally (within the scope of physics) the second law of thermodynamics and a condition from order to chaos and what that entails, the fragmentation and dissipation of pure energy into matter and beyond.

But it's governed by a force that we can never hope to understand, some try to and have done so by inventing dieities and suchlike (an imagined reality as is said) and they are trying to compartmentalise that which they can't because of their egos desire in wanting to know why they exist, hence the dual reality referred to, but the governance is of such an intellligence that it can factor in such things as chaos, infinity etc and yet still follow a 'model' that appears to flow in one direction, however I've done a lot of thinking about this and my conclusions are that perhaps my previous thinking was flawed, the reasons why are because I'm relying on only that which my senses are telling me. Of course the information my or anyones senses realy is not the total amount of information, on the contrary, that information is only relative to our own realities (in essensce we live in our own universes that are incorporated into what we 'see' as one universe).

As a result of even more thinking (I've spent most of my life questioning these things lol ) my only conclusions albeit theories can be that my universe is constantly created before me within a structure we call 'The Universe' so like bubbles say, when a fork in the path happens in my life (like the single particle slit experiment) an alternate reality is created, another me, another personal universe or bubble in the construct of the whole, however this gets even more complicated because there's not enough room for an invinite amount of physical bubbles in what would appear in a physical construct so there must be interdimensional layers of infinite amounts, each one being a physical reality where these bubbles go, hence why there's not two of me in this physical reality here.

So taking this further I then thought, 'well how can this idea be accomodated and how can this be possible within what science seems to say is a one universe that starts and ends' ?

I think they are perhaps right to a degree, but only if following a linear way of thinking, if cyclical thinking is adopted and going back to the constant state of flux then all things are cyclical and perhaops the universe/multiverse interdimensinal is exactly that, constantly interweaving between realities of different dimensions that obey no rules of space/time.

That last bit is where I believe the conscious comes from, part of general conscious, tied like a web are all consciousness' and it's the sum of the whole of the indviduals that create the shared reality, simply put our conscsious is not created via out material selves, rather our material selves are for the purpose of containing our consciousness', if so then we'd be dealing with a level of knowledge that we'll never understand and can only believe or disbelieve and secondly this way of thinking tends to make me conclude that alone we simply cannot be in the galaxy, let alone the universe for that to happen, indeed it must be absolutely teaming with consciousness' all over of different leves.

But why and for what reason would all of this be ?

Well my only answer to this through thinking about it is that the approach of finding answers in the physical reality will never bare fruit and be lacking of 'truth'. The truth must lie beyond that and that's where the realms of the spiritual and paranormal come into play, the notion of souls etc...so I've thought about it and from a position of never, ever believing in anything other than what my senses relay, I'm of the opposite view and to me it's blindingly obvious at how boxed in that level of thinking was, so now I may not be able to see the outside of the box, but I certainly believe there is one and this comforts me man, settles many qustions about who, what, why I am and where my place is with everthing.

That conclusion is that I am the universe and the universe is me, so is this seat I sit on, so is this computer etc we are made of the same atoms, just different in molecular structure and we will be recycled just like we have been before, the difference lies in where and how much conscious energy is placed into the different bits that are matter and what that matter becomes.

Long way to go though mate and only my personal thinking which sometimes I struggle with these concepts as it's hard to try and escape all that I've believed and to reject any conditioning.

I may be completely wrong and completely barking mad as I've no proof, but I take comfort in trying to work it all out and life is a personal journey after all.

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Shit bro you really have given this sone thought! lol

I wont lie mate alot of that went completely over my head but parts of it rang true and I can make similar connections in my own life and experiences.

I forget who said it and when but theres a quote along the lines of "we are all at the dead centre of our own particular universe, and that all of those universes overlap at some point" in a similar vein everyone of us is , in our own conscience the lead role/actor in the movie of our life. That sounds vein I know but its not. Its our ego expressing itself from the only angle from which we can see.

I have a very unscientific and wholly unprovable yet overwhelming certainty that there is alot more to 'life' than this physical biological entity we currently call self.

But that might just be a self defence mechanism. A fallacy which as you say gives comfort and hope where in truth we simply don't understand..

The part I liked most was the money aspect. It really is one of the greatest cons invented by man.

And everyone of us is a fool for going along with it.

As stated . Even a chimpanzee aint that stupid.

Glad I wasn't the only one to find it interesting anyway!

Atb man , dodge

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@@Dodgee

Aye I do ramble on sometimes mate with my confused thinking lol but yeah man you are absolutely correct to believe in the 'there's more concept' for sure, can neither be disproved or proved just the realms of personal belief :yep:

That quote you've written theer is so true to my line of thinking, it could be construed as you say in a completely self centred way, but that's not necissarily in it's own right a bad or negative concept if one realises it...we almost certainly need the ego but the ego will destroy us if we let it and therin lies perhaps the answers to the difficulties our species will face, that being whether we learn to wrestle control of our minds and not continue to let our minds control us if you get what I mean.

If we could and then apply the 'first do no harm' phillosophy we could achieve so much if we came together, needn't have the selfishness as we would understand it's not required at our levels of consciousness and learning now...we are at a crossroads though and the crunchtime is coming ever faster, beyond that and if we don't get a grip, karma will address it and rebalance things somewhat.

Yeah I did the find the lecture interesting Dodge, to be honest this kind of stuff has always fascinated me but being destructive when younger and anti constraints of school and the conditioning like, didn't get much of their 'papers' declaring how bright someones supposed to be lol

I'm going to look into this TED stuff, I've seen a couple of vids now on these boards from them and there's some good thinkers speaking and expressing their views :v:

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That conclusion is that I am the universe and the universe is me, so is this seat I sit on, so is this computer etc we are made of the same atoms, just different in molecular structure

The universe is doing you like the ocean does a wave!

what you do is what the whole universe is doing at the place you call 'here and now'. you are something that the whole universe is doing, in the same way that a wave is something the whole ocean is doing. the real you is not a puppet which lfe pushes around. the real deep down you is the whole universe

Alan Watts

Aye I do ramble on sometimes mate

Your not rambling mate, you are saying very similar things to what Alan Watts says. I highly recommend you listen to Alan Watts as he talks about all this and much much more, things you never thought of!

This one is OK, there is some amazing material.

What an amazing guy he really was!

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@@Davey Jones

Yes indeed, he does see things very similar to how I see things, cheers mate a very interesting talk that was :yep:

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@@Davey Jones

Yes indeed, he does see things very similar to how I see things, cheers mate a very interesting talk that was :yep:

That's just one! Very relevant to this thread for sure

He covers so much ground, I must of listened to hundreds of hours of the guy and I am a massive fan.

Listening to him when your tripping is amazing, the things he says just resonate

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@@Davey Jones

Yeas I will source his words more mate, don't do tripping though, maybe one day but for now the herb is enough magic for me to handle :v:

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@@Davey Jones

Yeas I will source his words more mate, don't do tripping though, maybe one day but for now the herb is enough magic for me to handle :v:

Theres a lot of material, a hell of a lot I have only heard a fraction of it, I listen to him most days and some can be boring but rough with the smooth the vast majority is very thought provoking. It takes a while to get into and actually start hearing what it is he is saying. Terence Mckenna has based himself on AW but TM is more about drugs where as AW doesnt ever tell you to 'eat 5 grams dry' its rare he mentions drugs.

He can be very funny at times too, he had a very dry sense of humour. He was 'perfectly amazing' there is no doubt

Tripping isn't for everyone however IMO there are far more people that could benefit from psychedelics than they realise, you dont hallucinate from hallucinogenic drugs (unless your doing ridiculous doses), nothing will chase after you and if you educate yourself and do things right then having a bad experience becomes a slim possibility, its certainly not a game of russian roullette like so many people think

Too many people darent trip because of the fear of having a bad do which is just a result of the propaganda

The government dont want you getting stoned because it allows you to think for yourself and see the bullshit, they absolutely can not have us taking Acid as thats like 100 times more eye opening than Cannabis. If everyone tripped tonight then capitilism wouldnt exist in the morning!

:yinyang:

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